Is the UK now on a "war footing"?

I worry that we are all (I mean countries) going to talk ourselves into and find ourselves at war by some self fulfilling prophecy. Rather like WW1.

Whitewavemark2

I worry that we are all (I mean countries) going to talk ourselves into and find ourselves at war by some self fulfilling prophecy. Rather like WW1.

This is how I feel. I think at some point in the not too distant future one country will take a big chance and invade another. Then someone, feeling they have no option, will push the button. I don’t think it’s far off. I have no faith in any of the men in charge.

Wyllow3

Perhaps there is space for these school leavers if its the one year scheme - someone said this on another board -

If its young people with no qualifications, someone has to cook, medical orderlies, stock food and equipment, clean uniforms, mend vehicles, help dig people out in national emergencies..

If they do have qualifications, it could be a doorway for those with qualifications to deciding whether they are interested in a career like this whatever their skills are.

All cooks, medical orderlies, logistics and engineering soldiers are also highly trained combat soldiers . Soldiers clean their own uniforms and none of the jobs you mention in an army milieu are gig jobs suitable for the untrained and unqualified.

The most appropriate way of training these eager young recruits would be through the territorial army framework, not the main army, who are too small in number and as a result too busy keeping themselves fighting ready to deal with a bunch of raw enthusiastic young people eager to earn money in their gap year.

Whitewavemark2

I worry that we are all (I mean countries) going to talk ourselves into and find ourselves at war by some self fulfilling prophecy. Rather like WW1.

That is a worry.

I guess it will be all about the nature of the scheme and eligibility Monica.

Whitewavemark2

Also bear in mind that defence is one of any country’s primary functions.

Absolutely. I remember as a child my father who usually voted Labour changing to Tory.Iasked him why and he said you can’t vote for a government that doesn’t support defence. In the past when there was talk of doing away with Trident the excuse was that “we had America!!!” Recent events show that we need to invest in defence as a priority. Years of reducing all aspects of our defence in an effort to balance the books has left us in a vulnerable position and dependent on America which recent events has shown clearly was a major mistake. Talk of sovereignty as a major reason for Brexit is nonsense when we cannot defend ourselves and all the parading of our so called status in the world when the reality is that we are in fact an underfunded small country within a huge global community.We need to join with Europe and provide a strength which is needed to defend ourselves from tyrants such as Putin and mad men like Trump. I commend Starmer.

Brexit was a victory for the ingrained zenophobia of the British public. Anyone who has any experience of living or travelling in Europe will be more than convinced that each country has kept its unique national virtues, vices and - their sovereignity -, whatever that might mean.

If nothing else you can always tell when you have crossed a country boundary because the domestic architecture changes.

Ingrained xenophobia? I wouldn’t have thought that.

Richard North in Turbulent Times today gives a position much more in line with the majority view I imagine. I too was completely turned off by Starmer’s speech- Churchill he is not. Very difficult to buy into this government at the moment.

winterwhite

I feel a bit sceptical about this. Chronic under resourcing is not unique to the armed forces among our public services. Any of them could produce an equally damning review.
Not sure how I will view it if this govt raises tax to fund defence when it will not do so to fund social care and is proposing cuts to welfare benefits.

Except for the blinkered few I'm sure most are aware of the underfunding of all our public services. This is one step in the direction of turning this around and I agree with others that this optional version is an excellent idea.

Of course no one wants war! However, the best way to let it happen is to be unprepared. This is a small part of a very large review.

Sorry Winterwhite I didn't mean to quote you on that. My post was general not in answer to yours. (More haste, more mistakes!).

Taxes must rise otherwise there's no money.

I don't think it's quite that simple Grantanow. For instance, more jobs and higher incomes raise taxes. A lower demand for particular resources lower the costs.

Whatever you do it's like building a wall - it has to be done from the base up.

nanna8

You never want war. It is awful, beyond awful. The uk tends to get involved in wars and I hope the politicians think very ,very hard before they lead people into death. It would be good if only those in positions of power fought the wars and left the rest of us alone. It is always someone else’s fault somehow.

Hey what a good idea!😄Government against government only.
Starmer and Putin go head to head in a wrestling match, Trump and Kim can go for nets and tridents and Macron and chosen opponent opt for a fencing duel.

I think Starmer is talking war up as a warning to Russia that as part of Nato we are all taking defence spending very seriously and aren’t going to be sitting back and looking the other way while he gets ever more aggressive. Also, Starmer needs to put taxes up and this gives the populace the reason for big tax hikes.

Interesting that many of these belligerent leaders, ie Putin, Netanyahu, Trump, are septuagenarians. Are they just out for self-aggrandisement in the later stages of their lives and don't care what chaos they leave behind when they depart this Earth?

None of them put their own lives at risk,do they? Pity, because they might think a bit harder if they did.

Of course not.
Playing with pieces on a chess board.

Gosh how awful that we are seeing war as ‘inevitable’
Can we win if we buy more bombs
One poster suggesting army as a ‘gap year’ for poor kids - yes put a gun in their hand for career training- this sounds like 1914 narratives - not sure I’m suited to this group

Let’s not forget Biden in all this. Are we seriously more in danger with Trump at the helm than Biden? Who cares more about the UK? Certainly not the Democrats in the US.

woodenspoon

Let’s not forget Biden in all this. Are we seriously more in danger with Trump at the helm than Biden? Who cares more about the UK? Certainly not the Democrats in the US.

Of course we are in more danger with Trump at the helm, not only is he a maverick, but his team are largely clueless. The Democrats at least took a world view and understood the importance of the position of the USA in the world order.

Pottering

Gosh how awful that we are seeing war as ‘inevitable’
Can we win if we buy more bombs
One poster suggesting army as a ‘gap year’ for poor kids - yes put a gun in their hand for career training- this sounds like 1914 narratives - not sure I’m suited to this group

I wouldn't support it - no way if I felt thats what the "one year" was all about.

Boots on the ground is a small part of defence now. Learning the basics of discipline, of team work, of work relative to peacekeeping/rescue, for the those entrants with more qualifications who'd enter the army at a different again a huge range of things to learn not the one man/women and one gun?

I wish we didn't have to take this road I hate guns drones and all that goes with but we have to defend outselves.

Casdon

woodenspoon

Let’s not forget Biden in all this. Are we seriously more in danger with Trump at the helm than Biden? Who cares more about the UK? Certainly not the Democrats in the US.

Of course we are in more danger with Trump at the helm, not only is he a maverick, but his team are largely clueless. The Democrats at least took a world view and understood the importance of the position of the USA in the world order.

In your view perhaps. Others would t agree with you.

Sarnia

I don't feel we are on a war footing but with the world as it is the Government need to increase spending to improve our defence.
As seen with the wars going on at the moment, drones and modern technology will play a big part in any future conflict.
My Dad always said that scrapping conscription was a bad idea. Young people in this country will need to be trained and ready if and when war affects us.

I guess there's going to be all sorts of viewpoints on that one. My father was in the Armed Forces for years - until a determined teenage daughter got him out of them one way or another (ahem.....). After all that - he basically turned rather anti-war on the one hand (ie he didnt feel it solved anything in the event) and his other comment was "It doesn't feel like MY country anymore - I wouldnt fight for it any longer - and I wouldnt expect many of us would" was about the gist of it.

So - nope he didnt believe in conscription. He believed in voluntary on the one hand or semi-voluntary (ie apparently voluntary - but, as he put it when I asked him why he'd gone into them "What else could a lad from a large poor family do?" (sighs....).

My erstwhile brother sorta voluntarily went into the Armed Forces at one point - but it was "sorta" voluntary - because he became a driver in one of them and being a driver was about all he was capable of doing (ie down to having a very low IQ).

For myself - I was only too glad they didn't have any form of conscription - as my mind was working around how I'd have avoided that if they ever came up with that idea....as they wouldnt have got me within a million miles of being in the Armed Forces even temporarily....

For myself personally and many in my generation - I'm really not sure just how well we could handle a war - as we turned adult in the optimistic/things are going to get better times of the 1960s/1970s and the mid-1980s onwards of things getting steadily worse and worse has created one heck of a lot of stress watching our Society getting steadily worse and trying to protect ourselves from the fallout - so I'm really not at all sure how things would work out if they went "We've done Death of a Thousand Cuts on you from the 1980s onwards, financial crash of 2008, Lockdown of 2000 for a while etc etc - and now we're going for the Big One of another war".

Whoops - "Lockdown of 2020" amendment. Nuisance not being able to amend typing errors on this forum....