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Is the UK now on a "war footing"?

(128 Posts)
Wyllow3 Tue 03-Jun-25 12:09:35

Several news outlets are using this as a headline, somewhat OTT imo, but I'm referring to the Review published yesterday by the government and of course the different POV around how much we can spend and the timing of changes (and tax implications!)

The basics:

The review of Armed Forces came out yesterday, it was the first one since 2010.

"Led by Lord Robertson – a former defence secretary and Nato secretary general who conducted Labour’s last defence review in 1998 – it has consulted 150 external experts, received 8,000 submissions to a call for evidence, and runs to 48,000 words"

Apparently "the armed forces “lack the mass, resilience and internal coherence necessary to maintain a deterrent effect and sustain prolonged conflict”. Philip Stephens of the Financial Times wrote that those conclusions “are viewed within Whitehall as wholly uncontroversial”. There are 62 recommendations all of which the government accepted.

There are lots of detail in the all the newspapers, with disagreements about is it enough and is it soon enough.

As well as an increase in troops the main shift takes account of new ways of warfare (AI, robots, lasers) and a fundamental change in the overall picture of what the threats are, and of course how much we should spend on the military as opposed to other needs.

(I noticed that the government are considering a scheme where young people can do an optional one year sampling of military life (as opposed to Sunak's ideas of a compulsory military service)

news.sky.com/story/ai-robots-lasers-and-gap-years-in-armed-forces-key-details-as-uk-to-become-battle-ready-13378251
is a good summary

Sarnia Tue 03-Jun-25 12:20:23

I don't feel we are on a war footing but with the world as it is the Government need to increase spending to improve our defence.
As seen with the wars going on at the moment, drones and modern technology will play a big part in any future conflict.
My Dad always said that scrapping conscription was a bad idea. Young people in this country will need to be trained and ready if and when war affects us.

Wyllow3 Tue 03-Jun-25 12:29:33

I am in favour of the optional year quite a bit actually. Given the number of young people struggling to find employment it could be a gateway for development in different directions - but it would be all about the quality of what is on offer.

I dont think I'd support conscription tho there are those who are very clear what they want to do and there is the right to pacifism....anyway the cost of everyone doing it would be prohibitive I would think.

winterwhite Tue 03-Jun-25 12:35:55

I feel a bit sceptical about this. Chronic under resourcing is not unique to the armed forces among our public services. Any of them could produce an equally damning review.
Not sure how I will view it if this govt raises tax to fund defence when it will not do so to fund social care and is proposing cuts to welfare benefits.

Wyllow3 Tue 03-Jun-25 12:41:01

That has pinpointed a main issue winterwhite - on rating taxes and where it should go. I feel the government is in an impossible position here as they want to do both but different people demand different priorities valid for different reasons and it becomes yet anther Starmer bash.

Personally I want the social care now but who knows what we may face in the future defence wise - and have to make those decisions now not when/if something happens?

Whitewavemark2 Tue 03-Jun-25 12:43:03

I’m not sure - but what I do know is that other european countries such as Germany and Sweden most definitely are.

Bearing in mind that Putin has declared in the past that the U.K. is one of the first in Russias sights, I think it would be sensible to ensure that we are able to defend ourselves against any attack.

Casdon Tue 03-Jun-25 12:44:19

I don’t think there is any option but to re-arm. Europe as a whole has been way too complacent about the threat of invasion, and isn’t currently in a position to effectively defend itself. I don’t think this is a Labour Government issue either, I think whichever party was in power would be doing the same thing. Having said that, I don’t think we are actually on a war footing at the moment, we are preparing for if we need to be.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 03-Jun-25 12:46:04

Also bear in mind that defence is one of any country’s primary functions.

butterandjam Tue 03-Jun-25 12:53:13

Simon Reeves " Scandinavia" series , recently on TV, was an eye opener into the fears and civilian/military preparations by Russia's neighbours Finland and Sweden.

Ukraine is a terrible example of Russian mindset
Donald Trump is a terrible example of American mindset.

eazybee Tue 03-Jun-25 13:25:23

These are troubled times and I am very relieved that the government is taking defence seriously; I hope they honour their commitments sooner rather than later.

merlotgran Tue 03-Jun-25 13:26:41

I’m in favour of the gap year approach. Young adults from poorer homes are less likely to favour university and the debt it will bring but if the gap year leads to a military career they can achieve a higher education leading to a degree should they want it and all whilst being employed, trained and broadening their horizons.

Should conflict occur they will have a clearer understanding of the politics involved and their role in our defence.

The opportunities offered are not all combat related. My friend’s daughter is a pharmacist. She trained and qualified in the Army.

There will be some who decide it’s not for them but I bet they will take away some good experiences from their gap year.

Wyllow3 Tue 03-Jun-25 13:34:38

eazybee

These are troubled times and I am very relieved that the government is taking defence seriously; I hope they honour their commitments sooner rather than later.

I agree providing the public are prepared to shell out in taxes!

as I cant see what to cut instead (there may be things I cant think of - as I listen to Front row Arts on R4 am aware of big cuts in Arts funding already on major instutitons).

As for the sooner yes, but atm there are disputes within military and defence about what to prioritise and this cant be resolved very quickly, needs thinking through.

karmalady Tue 03-Jun-25 13:39:11

Yes the UK is on a war footing

One dgs is about to go for his sandhurst interview, sil was a captain in the signals and dd a major in the medic corps. Another dd is involved in front line defence.

It isn`t so much about cannon fodder these days, more about good brains, quick thinking, patriotism, leadership, engineering design and so on

AGAA4 Tue 03-Jun-25 13:39:19

I don't think we are on a war footing but Russia has been scouting round our island in submarines and that's obviously with malign intent.
The German defense minister thinks that Russia may be ready to attack in only four years. He says he will probably go for the Baltic countries. As they are in NATO we will be at war with Russia.
Russia is building her arsenal and we need to be able to defend ourselves.

Wyllow3 Tue 03-Jun-25 13:50:53

I think the Review should have started earlier once the Ukraine/Russia situation became clear. But maybe we relied too much on the US.

The scouting around by Russia - surely it's sabre rattling? But it's definitely a case for Europe to work together.

Will the public be prepared to pay more income tax for it all?

Parsley3 Tue 03-Jun-25 13:51:17

In a devastating verdict on the state of Britain's defences, the Strategic Defence Review (SDR) said today's armed forces are "not currently optimised for warfare", with inadequate stockpiles of weapons, poor recruitment and crumbling morale.
I am certainly not sceptical about this report and something needs to be done and quickly. I also think that an option for school leavers to join the armed forces for a year is a good idea.
I don't want to think that the UK is on a war footing but can't ignore that now that the USA has withdrawn its goodwill, Europe is a sitting duck for attack by any would be aggressor and its allies.

FriedGreenTomatoes2 Tue 03-Jun-25 13:51:27

Can the rent we are paying for the Diego Garcia airbase be counted as part of our NATO defence spending.....

Wyllow3 Tue 03-Jun-25 13:54:55

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Can the rent we are paying for the Diego Garcia airbase be counted as part of our NATO defence spending.....

Now thats an interesting one as it's the UK and US working together in a key strategic position. I wouldn't cut all ties with the US I think maybe that is counter productive?

Wyllow3 Tue 03-Jun-25 13:58:26

Many (including me) didnt realise that the US pays the UK approximately £101 million annually for the lease of the military base on Diego Garcia.
The US also pays for the "running costs" of the base.)

winterwhite Tue 03-Jun-25 14:07:30

War if it comes will be nuclear surely, is that what we’ll be preparing for? In any case, better start re- prioritising farming at the same time. Do we expect Putin to last another 4 years.

The Simon Reeves programmes were eye-opening, esp I thought re Sweden and defence. The Swedes pay sufficient taxes to fund all their public services properly. I agree with that.

I also agree with the civic training gap year.

Casdon Tue 03-Jun-25 14:13:24

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Can the rent we are paying for the Diego Garcia airbase be counted as part of our NATO defence spending.....

It doesn’t really matter, because there are specific actions the UK needs to take for our own protection, as well as our obligations to NATO. If to do that we have to spend more than the NATO requirement, that’s what we will need to do. I don’t think getting our expenditure up to the NATO requirement level for the sake of it will be needed, it will be keeping it down that will be the concern.

FriedGreenTomatoes2 Tue 03-Jun-25 14:25:31

So America pays millions yet we offer billions?

AGAA4 Tue 03-Jun-25 14:29:05

Wyllow3 We thought it was sabre rattling before Russia invaded Ukraine.
I don't think Russia have the UK in its sights but we are a member of NATO and will be drawn into war if Russia attacks the Baltic states.
I don't trust Russia to be just sabre rattling after Ukraine

Homestead62 Tue 03-Jun-25 14:29:21

At last UK is waking up. It's taken them long enough and I always said the decimation of our armed forces and MOD was a big mistake. As usual for this country, shutting the stable door.....

Casdon Tue 03-Jun-25 14:31:22

Explain why you think that’s relevant to how much we contribute to the NATO commitment when we have so much to do to rebuild capacity to fight a war please FriedGreenTomatoes2, because I don’t understand what you’re getting at?