Between the devil and the deep blue sea

Can you clarify who is upset please, Nellie? 'GD v upset, could hear hurt in his voice.' I might be misunderstanding, not great with acronyms. Sorry, do want to respond but don't want to miss the point. Thanks.

Sorry when ex husband who is eishas grandad and his partner is nanny sue.

Hi Nellie I have no experience of anything like this and can't even really understand as it is so far from what I know so all I can do is send you my very best wishes and hugs and hope that others can say something constructive for you. It sounds as if everyone wants the best for her so I really hope that she won't cause a rift between you all.

Just an afterthought, has she been to stay with them? That might make for greater understanding.

Good luck

I think you have to be upfront with them and explain the situation! Ie, that it isn't really GDs fault, but a result of her early upbringing!
Also tell them frankly that it is better not to buy presents, but contributions to treats as a reward for good behaviour would be helpful and appreciated!

Yes, Nellie I couldn't follow all your acronyms there either, there were a lot of them. I think GD and XDH may have got mixed up. Are you saying that XDH and Nannysue are coming and you have told XDH about the tantrum and he is upset and they are going to be outspoken and probably do more harm than good?

They may not be quite up to date with GD's need to smash something when she is wound up.They would be better to help with stuff that is not material things, that can be destroyed. Putting this tactfully so that they don't feel you are ungrateful could be tricky, but they will understand if you explain it.

Is there a way that DGD can vent her feelings without damaging possessions? Something like a garage full of old crockery is the kind of thing I mean - hurling it against the walls could be satisfying for her. Learning the process of redirecting her anger like that could be useful too.

Yes, I agree with jeni and * Elegran*. They would surely understand if you update them beforehand and explain why breakable gifts might be spoilt at present? An energetic outlet for anger might be a topic you could discuss whilst they are visiting and if it's something that needs a financial contribution, like gym or running club membership (depending on whether she might be interested) they could assist in that way.

I know you have shared with us, on an earlier thread the difficulties that you have gone through re your daughter and granddaughter ...and that many of us have shared our sympathy and virtual support for you.

I think ...as others have already said, that you must be honest with XOH and his new partner NS ...well before their visit. They need time to digest consequences of tantrum events and what you are trying to do to support your GD via anger management and therapy.

I would suggest it all goes in writing ...perhaps via e-mail ...so that they have time to reflect and review ...not via a conversation with one of them, which, in the re-telling may create mis-understandings.

Have you ...or your current partner ...been able to share with your GD how her outbursts affect you? I know you'd have to pick a time when she is relaxed and comfortable but maybe those times are so precious that neither of you wish to rock the boat She is 14 yrs old and at some point she has to learn that actions have consequences ...after all, in a couple of years time she'll be able to leave the security of your home.

Such a difficult situation ...but in all this turmoil ...do not forget to take care of yourself.

Best wishes

Not surprised you have difficulty following either we are a pretty mixed up family,basically my husband and I separated both have different partners,husbands partner nanny sue my partner Bill.
Eisha suffers anger problems,and they do take her on holiday,but she always kicks off with us because she feels more secure in the relationship with us,and only sees nanny s and grandad every 3 months or so with no phone calls in between,both are loving but distant and think money and gifts are the answer,and I have tried saying its a big gift and a big responsibility to place on her as she is very aware of her issues,but when the red mist descends there is only damage limitation,crockery smashing is good idea but not practical as was the gym,and strong physical exercise,she isn't in the right frame of mind and as much as we encourage and downright bloody with her she got to the gym and threw a tantrum and wont go back again,we live in a smallish village without many facilities and not many children so we have to travel and pay for entertainment for her.she is very careless with possessions having lost a gold necklace which was the present my daughter bought her the year she died,the list goes on she is playing the role I fear that she has seen her father play in order to get her own way,school ia aware and she has recently been in inclusion for cutting a boys hair off in chunks for annoying her,we have had extensive therapy and counselling for her with CAMH's and feel we can't see the wood for the trees as services are limited and there are long waiting lists for support.Grandad and nanny sue are fully aware of the circumstances but it is out of sight out of mind and they are not very insightful and also rather detached,although they mean well,they buy the present and I feel uncomfortable with the cost some times although they are given with good heart,If daughter was alive we wouldn't be having contact with them it is for eishas benefit we all get together.......this is probably very garbled but it's bubbling away trying to come out.....

let it flow nelliedeane ...there will always be someone here to listen

I wonder whether their finances would stretch to some private therapy sessions with a reputable psychologist whilst you are waiting for help? There are many good psychologists and therapists who can help with cognitive behaviour therapy and neurolinguistic programming that can help to manage and reduce angry outbursts. If she can keep a lid on her anger in some settings, there may be an issue about her learning to control her anger in your company, and if she is pervasively angry the therapy/counselling could provide a short term benefit until she gets an NHS psych?

Thanks all of you for listening and your advice,and the suggestions already made and the strategys are ones already tried I have done filial therapy ,with her have done course on anger management,mental health workshops,working with other family groups in order to get training and techniques,and also done some training with the solihull approach which is based on the value of reciprocity have had frank discussions and talks with nanny and grandad nanny is sticking by sher opinion that she is naughty and somehow we are to blame grandad thinks what nanny sue tells him to (nothing new) he doesn't do responsibility,preferring the quiet life,and 8 can understand that he worked long hard hours when we where together preferring the lack of responsibility and the freedom to be with her friends at work,he is the same age as me and I am sure if I where in his position and able to have holidays and no stress I would be like that to,grandad feels I think that his generosity and a great deal of money has been thrown back at him,nanny sue will be angry and is very blinkered using her own standards,I just feel weary of being in the middle and soothing ruffled feathers all the time,everyone in the family can be very patronising in saying you are doing a good job but offers of help are not forthcoming as people have their own lives to lead and Eisha spent a week with my son last year Kerry was I'll and Eisha played up so much and accused martin of making her mum die...not true that he won't. Have her any more,grandad and nanny always cut any holidays short and bring her back early because she is very hard work and demanding.

Oh nellie how difficult for you. I have no easy answers, just carry on doing what you re doing. My parents were separated when we were tiny, and my Father compensated by buying stuff that my Mother never could- or would. it used to upset her terribly, but we regarded him as Father Christmas, until we were older and realised that things were not the important things in life. Your GD has obviously had bad experiences in her young life, and is so lucky to have a Granny like you.

Better that she is attacking things than people. The idea to redirect anger against objects that don't matter is perhaps a good next step to explore, as others have suggested. Poor girl.

If your ex and his partner know her history they ought to be able to understand what is driving her very easily and be forgiving whilst still trying to help her progress towards less violence. Do stress to them that money for school trips and such like non-physical presents would be really, really helpful and can't be destroyed.

All the best xx

Oh nellie what a tough time you have and what a star you are. I agree with all the suggestions made but particularly with jacey's suggestion of trying to sit down at a quiet time with your grandaughter and talking to her about the effects of her behaviour on herself and everyone else. It's difficult without knowing all the personalities involved but could you talk with her about the fact that granddad and nanny sue are so looking forward to seeing her but of course they will be very upset and annoyed when they realise what has happened to the laptop - could she think of how she could do anything to sow them how sorry she is? I think jacey is right and eisha does need to start to realise that while she may not be able to control her anger there are consequences for her behaviour and she can at least try to make amends afterwards. This should not be by buying presents as this is what her other grandparents do and is in many ways the easy option. Perhaps a sincere apology and a kind gesture on her part?

nellie a terrible thing happened to her (and to you) when her mum died, but you cannot make this right nor should you expect yourself to be the one to keep everybody happy. You clearly love her completely unconditionally and I'm sure she is a very loveable child most of the time. I'm so sorry there is not enough support for all of you but it sounds as though you are doing a fantastic job, just take care of yourself and for eisha

Nellie perhaps their visit needs to be curtailed and controlled if you aren't in any position to control the rest of what has been going on. They aren't being helpful to either of you. You can foresee trouble brewing when they arrive which you want to avoid. Maybe they need that ultimatum. Work with me or leave me to it?

Just off out but will look in tonight to see how you are doing xx

Thank you all for letting me get this off my chest the suggestion of telling grandad which I did this morning was mine she is aware that grandad is very hurt and upset and nanny sue will be also,but she knows that we will protect should nanny sue get too robust in her attitude.
We are also dealing with actions and consequences,the laptop and all other gadgets where confiscated,for 2 weeks she isn't trusted to go on any laptop etc unless she is supervised and not just the sites but for homework etc.
We are constantly speaking with her with regard to her anger issues,she is verbally abusive to Bill and we are constantly dealing with that,we encourage strategies with her like writing and drawing to express herself,and also naming the emotion that she displays so she can say what she feels,ie I.see you are looking happy/sad/angry and praising good behaviour and also building self esteem there are good periods with her and she is very loving to me as I am the centre of her world,but obviously wouldn't help her by condoning the bad behaviour,she cries when the anger has passed and it always ends in a cuddle,but this has taken years of learning and patience to achieve this,unfortunately as I say others haven't got the time patience to learn this and not being on hand don't understand so I am seen as allowing this behaviour when I explain my methods of dealing with it.

nelliedeane ...perhaps to clarify with them again ...I mean XOH and NS ...your strategies so they can help you by using them too.

Just remember ...you are doing a fantastic job ...give yourself some praise too.

tHanks when that's pretty much how I deal with it all I have dealt with /or am dealing with this,I appreciate your anger/hurt/opinion,she needs to say sorry,please listen and allow this..and then I watch that only that issue is dealt with and not a whole list of them...Bill and I always talk before any action is taken and agree the course of it,I always have last word as she is my total responsibility [only I have PR]. but a united front is shown so that one is not played off against the other.

dear nellie thanks to the wisdom of our GN friends, you have been offered plenty of sound advice. My goodness, you are a wonderful, caring lady, doing her utmost to be supportive, in extremely difficult circumstances. I admire you and your spirit. Please be kind to yourself and remain strong. (((hugs)))

I think when's suggestion of getting them to pay for private help, CBT or whatever is a good idea then they will feel included and perhaps share the results and be understanding.

I wonder though if curtailing their visits is a good idea if you want them to understand the situation fully. I suppose you need to decide if you want them more or less involved.

Are some of the issues because of her age? 14 is pretty awful for most youngsters with their hormones all over the place. Has it got worse over the last few years? Does she have friends of her own age? What are they like?

When my eldest was that age I bought a book called 'Help I've got a Teenager' it was no help at all but it did bring up loads of problems we didn't have and I thought he wasn't so bad after all! Later I found a good friend had done the same thin.

My family moved on my 14th birthday and I was determined to hate the new place. I succeeded but life turned out alright anyway!

I am not minimising the problem, just trying to offer another slant on it.

nellie I feel exhausted just reading all that. What a wonderful woman you are,and your OH must be a saint too.
You seem to be doing all the right things, just be kind to yourself too,it must be a dreadful strain on you all.

Thank you all,private help would be good but they are not in a financial position to commit to that,which is why I understand any money they spend is very hard earned and found,they live about 150 miles away so visits are 3 or 4 times a year if they lived nearer they could give time instead of money,which I think makes My ex feel he is doing something,they are good people and that isn't the problem I can feel his hurt he is quite vulnerable since losing Kate and has always taken the line of least resistance,on a day to day basis we deal with the situations as they arise one day at a time,but this has spilled over into another relationship which I will have to handle gently but firmly.

Alison some of the behaviour is teenage behaviour,but the other issues are from her background of domestic violence,she does have friends and I also make sure that she has friends over to stop at the weekends and take them out,and have sleepovers,she is also allowed to travel to the nearest town by bus which is 20 miles away with her friends for shopping and in the summer holidays I go to ESsex and bring back her two friends to stay for a few weeks that she started school with before we had to move away.
I feel much better for talking this over with you all,and I will be doing my utmost for a happy conclusion,she needs to clear the air as they are taking her to Gran canaria in September which is why I don't want to see them hurt they are not bad people, it might be easier if I hated the sight of them then I wouldn't care so much,but thank you my lovely lovely friends....Nellie is feeling able to cope now and your ideas are helpful and useful and there are strategies there that I haven't tried or will try some again onward and upward bless you allxxxxxxxxxx

nellie I said it before and I'll say it again - you're a star! Let's face it, we can only offer a listening ear (virtual) and vague suggestions; you are really the expert having coped with all this for so many years. Onwards and upwards indeed!!! ((hugs))

I am so happy to hear she has friends old and new as it means she does function on a normal level some of the time. Hopefully she will learn from them what is and is not acceptable behaviour.

Good for you, keep going, you are doing well.