BREXIT? Am I just plain stupid?

Brexit means chaos, it's that simple. We were told a pack of lies and the so called majority fell for it, The majority being those that voted Yes, not the majority of population of the UK. Brexiteers were so gallable, they believed the unbelievable because the policitans said what they wanted to hear. Only the young and those who vote No saw the writing on the wall.

My family lived in Europe before and after the EU for over 20 years and I certainly would not like to backwards. The EU gave us so much and more rights then the UK ever did and will, sadly these will no be lost.

The real question is who gained from us leaving the EU?
Certainly not the populace of the UK or the EU. Those individuals, yes, politicians lined their pockets, either through promotion or gratitude. America, yes. China, Japan Yes, India, Russia, yes. Why because they have now a gateway to our markets and we will have no money to invest,we have no manufacturing, and we will be left out in the cold.

So those big markets we been promise do not exist. We will take our begging bowl to the commonwealth and hope they will be sympathetic to our plight and forgive us for abandoning them.

Not a future to smile about but we in the UK are tough. We self destruct when things go well just so we can pick up the pieces and start again. So watch out for a very bumpy ride.

We are considering moving back to Europe I am too old for this madness.

Seems increasingly apparent the referendum was targeted not only by the Russians but also by the US alt_right. Disinformation was spread via social media. This is our democracy under attack. Take back control? Yes, declare the referendum null and void.

freyja I envy you the ability to move back to Europe, the loss of that possibility will be one of the many negative results of Brexit for me and mine.

www.buzzfeed.com/patricksmith/nobody-said-it-was-easy

11 times that Brexiteers said it would be easy.

I think now we are a bit better informed , there should be another referendum. I voted to remain but I have spoken to some leaver voters who have now changed their minds and in a second referendum would now
vote to remain.

Jaycee5 I didn't only mention Liam Fox. Numerous advocates for leave said that it would be easy to get a deal because of the EU exports to the UK. I've heard people saying that even quite recently, despite the evidence to the contrary.

CardiffJaguar we're not paying to leave, we're paying what we previously committed to. If you think otherwise, please provide details. In relation to the EU, a single set of laws and a single court (the ECJ) is relevant, not local laws. What legal cases have disturbed you? I keep hearing such claims, but never anything specific.

‘It will be like buying a house on the basis of a few grainy photos from a dodgy estate agent who won’t allow you to visit the inside’

inews.co.uk/opinion/mps-deserve-vote-final-plan-brexit-not-vague-sketch/

So true.

You won't get any details from Brexiteers, counterpoint.
They don't work in detail, just generalities, which are usually wrong.

I am constantly bewildered by the sheer madness of Brexit and the total chaos it is causing.

I’ve been reading the government papers today about proposed customs implementation. The massive lorry park planned has been scrapped and the earliest the planning application for a massive lorry park will be 2019.

Interesting Durhamjen and counter to what everyone has been saying.
The Brexiter argument that we can blithely cope with a "no deal" and use world trade organisation rules has one massive fly in the ointment:
The majority of our exports are "services" not goods and the WTO does not adequately cover these. Neither would the borders be "frictionless". Here are the kind of tariffs that would be applied at customs:
Tariffs on many industrial products would be 2-3%, but on cars they would be 10% and on many agricultural products between 20% and 40%.
So a disaster for UK agricultural products and other exports - overnight their products are much less competitive abroad.
And correct me if I'm wrong but these import taxes would also be slapped onto imports e.g. all that fruit and veg we import from the EU.
A lorry going from N Ireland to France, full of beef for example, currently just drives across the border to the Republic, then on and off the ferry at Dublin, without having to pause, then on and off a channel port ferry. No paperwork or anything because we're in a single market.

The Telegraph has now stooped to the same level as the DM (notorious for its "enemies of the people "headline)

Apparently MPs should not be allowed to do anything other than follow the dictatorial party line. Whatever happened to parliamentary democracy?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/14/nearly-20-tory-mps-threaten-rebel-against-brexit-date-brutal/

Varian, apparently the new Telegraph editor was trained by the editor of the DM, so not surprising.

Dyson was/is a Brexiteer.
He doesn't understand it himself, and made facts up on Andrew Marr last weekend.

infacts.org/james-dyson-great-inventor-fake-facts/

Varian, this is the response to the Telegraph.

infacts.org/fab-15-brave-telegraph-attack-dogs/

Good on the fab 15.

Totally agree, I was a remainer and am just lost as to what is going on which is very worrying!

We are spending a great deal of money and energy on deciding whether to fall off the edge of the cliff or to ab sail down it. Unfortunately the final destination is the base of the cliff we have spent 44 years climbing up. Do you not think that the "best possible deal " is the one we already have? I cannot see that Brexit can be delivered.

I voted to remain not just for me but for my daughter and grandaughter and for young people, I haven’t a clue what’s going on and I think everything else has gone on the back burner because of it.
We need to get our country up and running again.

I can’t ever remember a period where the government was so moribund. Brexit has it caught like a rabbit in headlights with about as much idea as to what to do.

We have the budget next week, but so much money will be taken up with paying for Brexit. Customs alone will cost a mind boggling amount. That money could easily have gone into the health service.

Very interesting comments here. The awful thing was the terrible lies that encouraged people to vote to leave. The Brexiteers still do not know what outcome we will have which amazes me as a Remainer! Why on earth did people vote for it, and now we are stuck in something that is costing all of us a fortune. Prices of food are going up and will continue to do so. Yesterday was the amazing turnaround for Grimsby who mostly voted to leave and now want special status to trade in the EU. European countries think we are mad, quite rightly. You don't have to put up with it. Talk to people, contact your MP and local paper, this is NOT inevitable . The government can stop this huge waste of time and money and disrespect to others whenever they want.

City of London are being offered special status, so why not Grimsby?
Brighton and Hove are after it as well.

More incometence - Kuenssberg has tweeted that May is looking for a way out of the date debacle. Dear oh dear.

That’s ‘cause we’re special ??

We're all special in our own special ways, whitewave. Maybe we can convince the EU of that, and all have special agreements with the EU!

I feel sorry for the Netherlands.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/16/brexit-netherlands-told-to-prepare-for-a-no-deal-chaos-scenario

infacts.org/theresa-may-heading-dreadful-deal/

The logical conclusion is that we should have no Brexit.