BREXIT? Am I just plain stupid?

DROOPED!

Just noticed my penny dropped, not dropped.

Perhaps it was a cent and not a penny

It took a while for that penny to droop didn't it?

well done a great comment and true thank you

Britain went from being the ‘sick man of Europe’ in the 70s to a successful country AFTER joining the EU.

I agree about history being taught in schools particularly from about 1832 to more modern times when there was so much change going on and many dreadful laws being repealed.
That period would also cover how our current Parliamentary system gradually came into being.

I believe that British history should be thoroughly taught in schools both the good and the bad parts of our past. We cannot change anything that occurred during our "empire days" but younger generations should know and have a right to be aware of how this nation changed the world at the peek of its global and industrial powers. To that younger generation much of the forgoing would not make for good reading, but as stated they have a right to that knowledge and in that be given the opportunity to learn

In one area of our history I believe we all have reason to be extremely proud. Following the second world war Britain was being written off as the sick declining nation of Europe and the world. However, Britain proved that wrong by transforming itself under a range of governments of different colours from a declining empire nation into one of the top ten commercial and economic powers of the globe. That to should also be taught to our younger generation as it was all achieved peacefully to credit of our 65 plus years generation

I think we have to be careful about how we look at our empire building. We certainly weren't the only country ever to have done it and, until very recent times, extending your territory was seen as a 'good thing' by any country that could do it. Those who managed to achieve it were lauded by their own country and admired by others.

We may not have handled the changes back to the sovereignty of individual countries well but did other empire builders, France, Russia, etc.

Understanding history is not helped if we try to re-write it in the process.

Greta It usually takes someone who speaks English as a second (or third) language to highlight how limited our grasp of English is.

I couldn't agree more about learning relevant history. I didn't enjoy history lessons at school - the delights of medieval farming methods were quite lost on me. It may be interesting from an academic perspective but unlikely to engage teenagers.

Of course, Primrose, you are right. The Brits were not the only ones and certainly we should not judge people on the basis of the past. But, should we not inform them about that past?
I was a secondary school teacher for many years and was sometimes shocked how little the younger generation of teachers knew about their own subject. A teacher of English once gave me a report on a pupil. The report said...”XX should listen to what his teachers advice him to do”. I corrected 'advice'. The teacher came back to me very cross and demanded to know why I had corrected it saying ”I looked it up in the dictionary and that is how you spell it!” The irony is that I am an EU national and English is my second language.

You are so right Greta - very few seem to know about anything. I have been coming to the conclusion lately that although I went to the normal State schools directly after the war I must have had really good teachers! I hated missing a day.
The Grammar school was staffed by graduate teachers many of whom had at some point done military service. We had great history lessons without any films etc to back up our books. When something big was happening in the world we talked about it - Suez being one topic I remember well. For O level I did English and European history from 1832-1914 - a very colourful and interesting time when the foundations of much of today's democracy was laid down and employment laws started to be formed. Wouldn't it have been marvellous to watch Gladstone, Disraeli, Peel etc at work in Parliament. I always thought Walpole must have been a fair chap to have on your side - he did the job of Prime Minister but almost didn't like the use of the title - you only need to see the wording on the door of number 10 to see that.
The EU countries see the UK as good law makers - most of the EU laws were written by the UK but now we want to have nothing to do with them.
However they protest it is a lot of ignorance on the part of some of the electorate which caused this mess - not necessarily their fault but maybe the education system and having teachers who were not so well informed.

This is the nation that was happy to invade other countries, impose their own rules and build an empire

Like the Dutch, French, Germans, Spanish ....... Empires were all the rage at one point in history, but I don't think people should be judged on what happened before they were born.

Maybe one way of looking at the EU is comparing it to an old-school empire, where countries take turns in leading it. A sort of virtual empire.

It has always amazed me how little the average Brit knows about their own history. They seem to think it all started with the second WW which, of course, we 'won'. This is the nation that was happy to invade other countries, impose their own rules and build an empire. Somebody said the motto of the Brits was ”grab, smash and brag”. But when EU immigrants arrive on our shore to WORK we complain we ”are being controlled by the EU.” If you think education is unnecessary try ignorance and see where it gets you.

I believe most people voted on single issues or emotional ones. The Daily Mail et al fed their readers with their Brexit led ideas and the less informed swallowed them. (Don’t even get me on that idiot Johnson). When I heard the result I was horrified. All I could think of was that we had as a country got through wars, depressions and all sorts but this was the first time we had actually set out to harm ourselves. I was also upset that we were told that the old people were to blame! Their memories obviously didn’t include the UK being referred to as “the poor man of Europe”. It is tragic that our grandchildren will suffer as a result of their decision.

Here's an excellent article by Michael White, pulling everything together., and answering that question lots of times, Tegan.

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/michael-white-road-nowhere-1-5292681

I was brought up to be honest and tell the truth. So I can't understand [and I never will] the total acceptance by leave voters with regards the promise to give that money to the NHS. It makes me think of things my daughter said as she was growing up; again, having been brought up to be honest and decent, whenever she was in a situation where another child had behaved badly she would sadly say 'mum, why did they do that, it's wrong, isn't it'. To which, I didn't really have an answer .

How true. Hope no children are awake on Christmas Eve to see this.

It is actually an excellent article with some good ideas. Theresa should listen to him.

www.theguardian.com/media/2017/nov/24/robert-peston-interview-im-not-saying-britain-is-finished-but-our-current-problems-are-not-a-blip

"Had Peston been delivering the budget this week, it would have contained a dramatic announcement on NHS funding. “Because it was overwhelmingly clear from all the evidence that the single biggest determinant of leave’s victory in the referendum was the promise of an extra £350m for the NHS. So I think it’s scandalous that the government hasn’t said: ‘Obviously you want £350m more a week to go to the NHS. And whether or not we get it from the EU, we guarantee that whatever happens we will put that extra £350m a week into the NHS.’ It’s absolutely scandalous that the government has not committed to that.” "

Because they say so, suzied. Is that not good enough for you?

I know - why don’t we spend all the money that is being spent on Brexit on the NHS?
We could put it on the side of a bus.
It’s funny how Brexiteers say they knew all along living standards would fall, so in what ways exactly are people’s lives going to get better ?

"A suspected Twitter bot that posted numerous pro-Brexit messages around the time of the EU referendum has been suspended after an investigation into Russian interference by The Times.

The highly automated “Israel Bombs Babies” account sent 1.55 million tweets after joining in September 2011, promoting anti-Israel views and echoing those of the Russian government on conflicts in Syria and Ukraine.

Analysis of the account, which appears to be based in London, showed that it also tweeted 492 times about Brexit on the day of the vote.

One tweet, viewed up to 6,400 times, stated that “UK and European citizens can be conscripted into Syrian war under Lisbon treaty”. It carried the hashtag #voteleave"

Just shows you shouldn't even believe what you read in The Times.

Tegan, we have just had two general elections in two years, so no reason why we can't have another one next year!

I am governed by people I don't know hundreds of miles away.

www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/1123/922191-brexit-embassies/

Why does everything we learn about Brexit have to be leaked from confidential reports?