Mrs, Miss or Ms

Just read my posts again,I'm afraid I don't recognise the insults.It is not my intention to be insulting.Or to to suffer threats from anyone else.Of course people can call themselves what they like.And,no the same does not apply to a woman taking her Husbands name.(not in my opinion you understand )

This thread seems to have raised some interesting opinions. There is clearly still a lot of prejudice against 'radical feminists' - which is very vague in meaning but seems to include anyone who wants to use the title Ms. Some of this prejudice seems to come from other women. Sad.

Great you to hear you never intended to insult.

But the question remains is why- why is it different? Tradition- but is that enough?

I use Ms, if I use anything at all, and didn't change my surname to my husband's. Of course, it is still a man's name, i.e. my father's. I am unquestionably a feminist but am not sure how radical. I don't feel the least bit insecure and am very comfortable in my own skin.

Granjura,
Yes of course tradition.And no definitely I would not intentionally insult anyone.In fact my motto is always to treat a person the way I would like them to treat me.But I admit to calling a spade a spade sometimes.
Also I admit to having a problem with the radical type of feminist.I don't feel personally threatened,but I think the traditional way of life is threatened.But the change (I feel,again,in my opinion) is not always for the better. I think it's very good women can be what they want.But I also feel it must be their choice,and not be brow beaten into it.Dont forget most people will follow like sheep.

In the days when I was Councillor Anno, I refused to be known as Councillor Mrs/Ms Anno. Some of the female councillors were known as Councillor Mrs XYZ which I thought demeaning. The men were not known as Councillor Mr XYZ! I rather liked the appellation Councillor Anno!

Are women brow beaten into calling themselves 'Ms', really? As said, I am a Mrs and have been since 1971- but I can understand that some see it as unjust- that a man is not clearly 'marked' by his marital status, but women are. And so are the ones who are 'Miss' at an older age, and all the connotations made about 'spinsters' which do not apply to 'Bacchelors'.

Women have, sadly, been brow beaten by some men and some traditions for a very long time, for education, civil rights, professions, etc- and still are today- with far less women in management and at far lower salaries on the whole. My mother was an exception, so are my daughters, and maybe I was too. So no bitterness on my part and the women in my family. But it does not mean that there is still a vast gap for many and a visible or invisible for many women still (even if it is self-inflicted due to tradition or expectations).

I will always! be Mrs...I loved being married, and it infuriates me when now I have to fill forms in and state "widow" why! why should it make any difference if your widowed/divorced/separated etc etc . of course some forms you have to state, like the community charge for eg. Depending on what forms I fill in I still try and put Mrs as that's how I see myself and proud of it.

Well, I will have to leave it there,because I've never felt brow beaten or demeaned in any way. I've never felt unequal,not even to the queen(bless her) different yes .But we all have our values,most of us contribute something.

Don't leave, we are discussing things in a civil manner- and we can agree to disagree. Not sure if you are a man or a woman, I thought a man due to the Mark ..

You can't deny the true statistics about % in management and lower salaries, even for the same job (disguised from the law one way or another), can you?

I was a Miss, then I got married and became a Mrs, then I got divorced and became a Ms, then I got married again and now I'm a Mrs again.

I like being a Mrs best.....well this time round.

No ,Granjura,I am a woman.
To be honest,I'm not sure if a woman is paid less than a man for doing the same job,That would be against the law wouldn't it?All things have to be taken into consideration,there may be technical differences.
Look, I truly believe in equality,straight across the board.I think the radical feminist don't.They want special treatment.

I am a Mrs.
My ds is a Dr. (Scientist)
My dil is a Dr.(musician) who kept her own name for all purposes.
My dgs is xxx with mum's surname and then dad's Surname. I never thought to ask if its was double barrelled. I assumed it was a middle name and then surname.
When I post something to them as a couple I address it as ds name and & dil name. Very occasionally I put Dr. In front...Just because I'm very proud of the hard work and effort.I introduce myself just with my name.

Someone back in the thread said that their DiL kept her own name but that they (the poster) address envelopes to Mr and Mrs Xxxx. That seems disrespectful unless the DiL has asked them to do that.

Mr absent and I quite often receive letters addressed Mr & Mrs absent, rather than Mr & Mrs Hisname. His family and some of mine tend to address us (on envelopes) as Mr and Mrs Hisname. Neither of us minds.

Incidentally,why are we not equal to men? I genuinely don't understand the concept.As I have said,I have never felt inferior or discrimination.
We are different with different capabilities.That doesn't make us inferior.
I find it hard to believe male and female staff doing the same job are paid different rates.
If you ask my son he will say it's the White male that's discriminated against.

Like Bikergran, I will always be Mrs. I was also happily married and proud to share my husband's name. The fact that I am now widowed is irrelevant in this respect.

Some radical feminists say they are biased towards women in order to even things up a bit.

Have you ever looked beyond your own experience Marmark? Are you aware that it is less than 100 years since women in this country were given the same voting rights as men? Let alone all the other victories in employment, marriage, fertility control etc that were achieved throughout the 20th century. Look beyond that to a world where women are still the property of their fathers until they become the property of their husbands, they are sold like animals, beaten, abused, burned and killed without penalty, their bodies mutilated, their children taken from them, and so on and so on. Do you really need to ask 'why are we not equal to men'.

The issue of whether to call yourself Ms, Miss or Mrs may seem trivial but to many it is a symbol of where women stand in relation to men. Why does it bother you so much that some women choose to redefine such symbols?

OK but how do you pronounce 'Ms'? The way many people say it, it sounds just like 'Miss'. So why bother? I draw the line at 'Mr' and I don't use 'Dr' because it's just misleading.

I find it so easy to pronounce! I don't think it sounds like Miss, more like muzz (with a very short 'u' and a posh southern accent, not my Yorkshire one ). Now mississ or missuss on the other hand just sounds silly the more I say it, and not at easy to pronounce.

Being of an irreverent turn of mind, once at the sort of serious meeting where those attending have to introduce themselves, i introduced myself as First Sea Lord of the Admiralty. Worked a treat. Ice broken and meeting went well. After that the Consultant chairing the meeting took to piping me aboard every time I visited that particular venue. DH has himself down as a Professor on his Boots advantage card. A rose by any other name and all that? Don't lets get into arguments about nomenclature. We're all in this together.

I've been a Miss, Mrs and now Ms. That aside I'll respond to anything as long as it's polite! I reverted to my maiden name on my divorce but feel that for me the Ms in some way acknowledges that. Am I a militant, no, feminist, far from. Freedom to choose what you want to be addressed as is nice, but does not define you as a person.

Re white males being discriminated against - it must make an unwelcome change for therm after centuries of being discriminated for. It is very hard to no longer be monarch of all you survey, and no longer be able to just assume that your decisions and wishes are paramount.

It's just dawned on me why I began to use Ms. It conveyed : 'My marital status is irrelevant and not your business!' At the time I felt I needed it and using it, awkward at first, became a blessed release. Decades later - I just don't care!