It's time to stop pandering

M0nica

Seems an excellent idea. As I read it, it helps children gradually return to school - and stay there. In the past children just dropped out of education entirely and, if they did, the children were way behind their contemporaries that just brought the problem back and going back was also difficult. The article I read talked to children who had returned to school after studying through one of these machines and they were quite unequivocal that they would not be back in school eept for this machine.

Before making sweeping comments as the OP has. She should read the article/news media I read thoroughly. She will see how effective these machines are. Does she want more children committing suicide as they are forced back to school (how) or have them descending further into serious mental illness or drug addiction just because using a machine that is more effective than the usual methods is seen as 'mollycoddling;

Excellent response

School is absolute hell for many SEND children. The noise, the crowds, the bullying. Fear is not cured by being forced into fearful experiences every miserable day.
Many school refusers would be far better off with home schooling but both parents have to work.

The days of a quick slap are long gone. We cannot go backwards. Perhaps if children were actually allowed to be children, there would be less anxiety.

I was so badly bullied at school in the 60# I stayed in the cellar for a week rather than go in. The teachers of course never saw any bullying. It sounds dramatic but I have never got over the bullying and I am 71 and socially incompetent

Ellesmere, I fully understand your views, however it is not pandering - it is a very real problem for some children and their families. This is far more complex than a child trying to avoid school simply because he would rather not be there. If that is the case then I agree a bit of tough love would not go amiss. Fortunately I have not had experience of EBSA but I believe it is a very serious condition that causes immense anxiety for the child and his / her family. If it hasn't happened to a child in your family please be grateful for that.

Elless- typo error !

We have had a lot of trouble with my 13 year old grandson. He is ASD and ADHD and at one point was barely managing two or three hours at school. Life has been easier now he's in a special unit at secondary school, but this week his father had to go and collect him as he was trying to get away ans saying he wanted to kill himself. So we aren't quite there yet.

I had a horrible time at primary school. I loved learning, but I couldn't cope with the teachers or the other children. Obviously 70 years ago the idea that a child couldn't cope with an everyday thing like primary school didn't exist, you were just expected to get on with it. The only person who did realise was our GP. He was quite happy to sign me off with vague viruses because (he told my mother) I'd had as much school as I could manage without a break.

My daughter works in a school where a few of the pupils have this. They come to school for a couple of days and then stay off. There is a social support worker who helps them and they do some lessons at home. Mostly young teenagers. It is a private school and costs heaps , a very good school and very supportive. No money of course, just doesn’t happen here. If you are diagnosed with ADHD you might get a little from the disability scheme if you’re lucky.

Papermonster2 I'm not talking about children who physically can't get to school. My son was in a frog plaster at one point and could not go to school for quite a while, and had work sent home for him.

Maybe there are some children who perhaps need a firmer hand to go to school but who are we to judge. I well remember a child in DD’s primary school who developed an aversion to her teacher (who tbh was not very nice and frightened the kids) and refused to go to school and would actually be physically sick every morning. Her mother tried everything even pleading she would be sent to prison if Sadie did not go to school. Most days Mum would eventually get her there but was like a wet rag from the stress. There was no problem with elder sibling. Next year, different teachers, things improved. Sadie was a very bright child who went on to do well.

Fast forward dd is a SENCO and some children have a complete phobia about going to school made worse by COVID. Mum drives child to school and dd spends 45 minutes persuading child to go in. This has gradually improved but takes so much time out of the day. If anything helps these children to overcome their anxieties it can only be for the good.

Or maybe we should be looking at what it is about school that makes it so hard for some children?

Luckygirl this is why so many people who are in the position to do so home educate.

Shelflife

Ellesmere, I fully understand your views, however it is not pandering - it is a very real problem for some children and their families. This is far more complex than a child trying to avoid school simply because he would rather not be there. If that is the case then I agree a bit of tough love would not go amiss. Fortunately I have not had experience of EBSA but I believe it is a very serious condition that causes immense anxiety for the child and his / her family. If it hasn't happened to a child in your family please be grateful for that.

An understanding post.

Or maybe we should be looking at what it is about school that makes it so hard for some children?
Yes. Some senior schools are enormous, the sheer number of pupils and the noise can be overwhelming for some children. The bullying that occurs now can be frightening too and often is not tackled by staff who are reluctant to tackle the bullies.

There is an interesting piece on the BBC website this morning about the results of an official report into childhood anxiety. Sorry I can't do links.
The conclusion was that children today are not "snowflakes" they are anxious because they have more to be anxious about. This is due to a combination of numerous things ranging from social media to climate change.
The author of the report decided to publicise his findings ahead of the official report because he wanted to make clear that it is affecting all children not just those with ADHD etc

So you’d rather children experienced what you did, OP?

Nice.

Honestly Im not surprised tho there seems to be an acronym for everything these days.
I hated School but could never get a 'sickie' as my mom was a nurse and had a thermometer...booo

I enjoyed school but Im sure there were many that would have played truant if they could get away with it. In the event very few did acronyms labeling them hadn't been invented, classes of 40 just had one teacher, pupils and parents respected teachers and discipline was much better - at my school it was very good, teachers and prefects were vigilant so very little bullying.

Is today progress.?

Not progress David but definitely different, im sure when you went to school there had been no isolation in lockdown, no rabid social media and no prevalent mobile phones.
These are the times we live in.
I’ve seen and heard nothing so sad as a strapping 13 year old boy crying because he wants to go to mainstream school, wants to fit in with his peers and wants to please his Mum who he loves very much. He just physically and mentally can’t - not yet.

Basgetti

So you’d rather children experienced what you did, OP?

Nice.

The reason they wont go to school may not be bullying.
I fully agree that the reason WHY they will not go to school needs to be investigated.

Horrid original post.

The school environment has become challenging for pupils and staff - both are stressed by the rigid assessments, box ticking, size, tight budgets, absence of flexibility and cultural stimulation - all of which lead to discipline problems.

And as for the academy bosses and lawyers lining their pockets whilst their staff struggle .... hmmmm ...

Just spotted this, so apparently youngsters really are getting more anxious and who can blame them. The world is an unfriendly aggressive place now. I wonder how I would cope today.
Young people aren't snowflakes - mental distress is rising, says head of official review
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqzrz0z4plk1o

Elless

Reading in the paper this morning about - wait for it - EBSA 🙄apparently a condition where children are 'too anxious' to go to school.
I was bullied at school, never popular and always on the outs. I hated school and dreaded it. I remember lying on the sofa with severe tonsillitis and hearing my parents saying 'she won't go to school tomorrow' - I had to be dying before they'd let me stay off. There's too much molly coddling kids these days 😡

Just reading this confuses me. You're saying how awful it was when you were at school, how unhappy you were. Then you say (or imply) that this is how things should be today! That makes no sense at all. Surely you would hope that things are better now.

I know little or nothing about school, beyond memories of being there, and of when my children were pupils, so I won't pretend to have answers to that, but for many years I ran a number of university courses and during that time I saw a huge increase in the numbers of students who wanted everything from exams to assignments and timetabling to run around them as individuals, which is impossible when they are one person amongst many. It was surprising to me how many parents tried to get involved, too. I would have been mortified if my parents had so much as contacted the university when I was a student, but as staff I had parents questioning marks, asking for extensions and far more on behalf of their offspring.

I fully understand that there are things that different people find difficult or impossible to do, but my sympathies run out when the answer to that is assumed to be that someone else should do it with no concessions from the people opting out.

Whether that is refusing to take part in a presentation, not turning up to difficult meetings (or to social arrangements that don't suit on the night), or refusing to attend anything that starts before 10.00am, it is unreasonable for anyone to think that they can please themselves yet still get the rewards they think they deserve.

If we are going to indulge individuals in their reluctance to step out of their comfort zones, we have to rearrange society so that others are not being let down when that happens, and ensure that plans are able to go ahead one way or the other. I'm not sure how we do that, but maybe having fewer people on salaries and more being paid by results, or for participation?

Sometimes I think that so long as it is easy for people to pick and choose with no consequences, not only will they do so, but others will expect the same allowances to be made for them, too, and it seems that many parents collude in this, pushing for their children to be excused from doing things they don't want to do.

I'm in no way minimising Anxiety or other MH issues, but I do feel that if someone knows they may back out of things, or be unable to follow through with promises they should not be in positions where that matters, and should choose their career accordingly. If someone is relied on but proves unreliable there should be ways to replace them with someone more robust, and find a less responsible role for the one being replaced.

I suspect that if this started at school there might be less of it as people get older, as both children and parents would realise that to 'get on' requires a certain resilience that they could learn to acquire before patterns are formed. Maybe not, but I think it's worth a try.

Jaxjacky

Not progress David but definitely different, im sure when you went to school there had been no isolation in lockdown, no rabid social media and no prevalent mobile phones.
These are the times we live in.
I’ve seen and heard nothing so sad as a strapping 13 year old boy crying because he wants to go to mainstream school, wants to fit in with his peers and wants to please his Mum who he loves very much. He just physically and mentally can’t - not yet.

The difference is we were just kids we did what we were told - mostly, if we didn't we were punished, we had boundaries, whatever authority enforced them. Some may have hated school but you went and you had the opportunity of education.

If you passed GCEs you got a better job most of us tried to pass exams because we got a better school report. Most of us learned basic skills and followed instructions so got a job as a junior in whatever workplace doing all the unskilled work, it was up to us then to better ourselves. Work was boring and tedious, when you did that correctly promotion followed as you learned more skills