Worried about my grandaughter

If you are worried that your granddaughter is in danger you need to go back to social services with specific incidents to report. Perhaps your daughter needs family support if she is not coping with a job and looking after her daughter. Have nursery staff indicated any concerns? Perhaps you could offer to have your granddaughter overnight once a week to give your daughter a break. It is a shame that you have a bad relationship with your daughter, but on the plus side she trusts you to pick her up, so your relationship has not entirely broken down. She may, however, find your help intrusive, and may accept help better from a third party. Is there a relative who could visit her?

Hi. She does have people she can ask but that is getting less. My sister did her a big favour and she didn't even get a thankyou. Same with my partner. He went round fixed a load of stuff in her flat and again not a word of thanks. If you say anything she just rolls her eyes like a teenager even though she's 27. I went round to help tidy her flat after her ex phoned social services. She sat watching a film while I did everything. She has a load of mouse droppings in her flat. I kept telling her how unhygienic it is and it's going to make my grandaughter sick but she did nothing. She lets me pick my grandaughter up because she has no one else to do it. I'm worried if I phone social services again she will eventually get taken off my daughter and her father is no better. He's an alcoholic. No one can talk to her because she gets so defensive and abusive. I could maybe message one of her friends thank you for replying

Social services will do everything to keep your daughter and her mother together. They may be able to help her with family support.

Keep contacting social services (but be aware that their backlog means it can be months before they properly address a case. If something more urgent happens ring the police and ask them to do a welfare check.

I could maybe message one of her friends

That could be considered harassment.
Stick to official routes for the major concerns.

I'm worried if I phone social services again she will eventually get taken off my daughter and her father is no better.

That would be way down the road. It does not happen in the first instant.

Can you ask to speak to the safeguarding lead at her nursery?

I think for all services the safety and well being of the child takes priority. Maybe in the light of your difficult relationship Tillywilly you are not the best person to take this forward, its hard I know but sometimes it's better to step back and let professionals help.

Hygiene and mess is very subjective.

There are "clutter scales" that professionals can use to determine whether clutter is a risk or not. Where would you scale your dsughter's home going by this: (other rooms available if you google images "clutter scale")
www.ecosia.org/images?q=clutter+scale+uk#id=74A152FC66F6611BF781ABF42E52F248CEE7869C

Notanan2
I will indeed look at this scale. But I would think mouse droppings wouldn't be good. There is also old mouldy food lying around. Trouble is we are no longer speaking. I've messaged her to meet and talk but I've had no reply. So of cause I'm worried what state the place is in now I'm not around to keep on top of it

TillywillyI think you need to look at the wider picture here and try to work out why she behaves this way.

Does your daughter have problems in other aspects of her life such as work or relationships? Is your GD clean, fed and well looked after?

Not being able to keep the flat clean may not be just laziness, it may be a sign of mental illness such as depression. The help and/or criticism given by family may make her feel embarrassed and useless and lower her self-esteem.

Try talking to her without criticising and perhaps suggest a visit to her GP.

I will indeed look at this scale. But I would think mouse droppings wouldn't be good. There is also old mouldy food lying around.

Neither of those things alone taken in isolation are safeguarding issues its more about context and actual risk.

Heres the thing, she probably KNOWS its messy/dirty, hense the eye rolling when you tell her. Knowing it needs cleaning is not enough to get you out of a physical or mental slump which is preventing you from tacking it.

People get overwhelmed when they let things slip out of hand and being told about just adds to the overwhelmed feeling and the desire to either snap or retreat into ones self.

For example is your GD having to scavange and eat the mouldy food out of hunger & neglect? Or is there just some mouldy food in the house. Do you see the difference? It might not be pleasant to have some mouldy food around, but its not necessarily doing harm if its just there and the child is being fed non mouldy food.

Not ideal Vs neglect/abuse IYSWIM.

I’ve said if she’s struggling I’ll help her. It’s not depression. She’s always been messy. I was worried when she said she was pregnant but hoped it might change her. It hasn’t. I don’t say she’s messy because I know she knows she is. She eye rolled after I had my gd over night. I told my daughter I had a rough night with her. She turned up late and as she went didn’t even say thank you so I must admit as she walked away I said you’re welcome. She rarely says thank you. My gd seems well fed but does look unkept. It’s not so much the mouldy food I’m worried about more the mice

I’ve cleaned her flat from top to bottom. Her garden took me 2 days. Bags full of dirty green nappies. Old bear bottles. Furniture and stuff I don’t even know. The way she acts makes me feel like she’s doing me the favour by letting me help her.

Having infestations is common and not a safeguarding issue alone, if it is preventing your gd from having a comfortable place to sleep etc it is.

"Messy", again, not an issue until it causes a real fire risk (see the scales linked above)

Telling her you'll help her isn't helping the reason why she can't help herself

I had my gd over night. I told my daughter I had a rough night with her. She turned up late and as she went didn’t even say thank you so I must admit as she walked away I said you’re welcome. She rarely says thank you

Did you ask to have GD or did she ask you to take her?

The way she acts makes me feel like she’s doing me the favour by letting me help her

Well that depends on whether its help she asked for, or things she let you do IYKWIM

notanan2 I think it is a safe guarding issue as having mice can cause all sorts of diseases and blindness. And it was my daughter who asked me to have my gd. And I wish I did know the reason she's like it. Then I could do something.

I'm trying to explain that mice droppings aren't by themselves a safeguarding issue. Its about context.

I'm not saying that they're not unpleasant but its the context that matters in safeguarding. Just having some mice and not being the cleanest person in the world is not by itself a safeguarding issue. It depends on the actual risk.

I.e. say the children's beds were covered in mouse droppings: yes, that's safeguarding.

The existence of a few droppings, no not necessarily.

Have you looked at the clutter risk ratings at all?

Look its all context.

If you cat pooped behind your sofa, cat poop isnt nice. Its not a safeguarding issue though. If your whole house is covered in dried in cat poop: it is.

Its not about how healthy or unhealthy the poop may be generally.

Having mice is common. Its not a sign of uncleanliness, its usually more to do with a structure that accomodates them (older houses etc) Its why a lot of people have cats! Although a cat would not be a good idea for your daughter at this time.

You will need to get more specific if you are going to liase with the authorities on this: are the droppings all over the kitchen counters? Are they on bedding and clothes? Are they making the bathroom unusable?

Or did you just find some on a floor in the corner of a room?

Gilly, you must be worried, I know I was. Your daughter has become as she has and yet you did your best to raise her so she hasn't learnt her laziness from you. As I see it you have three options.
You call round as frequently as you can to keep on top of the hygiene issue because that helps both of them. Do not expect a thank you if a kind word, do it because she needs you and your granddaughter does. Bite your tongue if you can and never criticise. She could have some sort of depression, but you want your granddaughter in a healthy environment.
The second is put it in the hands of Social Services, with their workload I doubt your d and gd will benefit much, it could end up with gd in foster care. Is that something you want?
The last is have gd living with you until your daughter is on an even keel.
You need to carefully look at the whole picture and for what is a best and acceptable solution.
A neighbour has the dirtiest house imaginable, she looks unkempt. Yet her two children have completed a good education and have lovely families of their own, they don't visit but mother is invited to their homes so despite everything she must have shown love. Don't give up, children want stability in their lives and that is what gd has, despite the dirt as she knows no difference.

Notanan2 luckylegs9 thank you for your replies. As far as the mouse droppings go they were all over my gd toys and under the sofa. I've messaged my daughter to say I will have my gd whenever she needs me to and to help with the mice and we don't have to speak but I don't think she'll reply

That does sound concerning.

Do you know who their GP is? You could let their health visitor know you are concerned.

Not instead of social worker but health visitors can get in to see them sooner usually. Health visitors have all sorts of tricks up their sleeve.