Another reason to not have a death penalty

Whitewavemark2

Peacelilydilly

The bible says an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth

Blimey - I’d thought that we had advanced beyond such silliness.

Hear hear WWM.

It also shows great ignorance.

Christianity actually has many different POV on this subject, both on the bible itself and in subsequent rulings and attitudes of contemporary Christians. The "eye for an eye" is not only therefore selective, but historically totally incorrect.

Read the Sermon on the mount and consult Matthew 5:38–39

The early church had different points of view too. The Celtic church had other ways of dealing out justice*, and it was only when the Roman church took power its became "eye for en eye"

* a serious murderer might be forced to give his life in work for the suffering family, ie do everything to make good, or in extremis, put in a boat without oars and let God decide if he were to die at sea or to be washed out on another shore/island.

Sorry pressed too soon. I am 50/50 on the death penalty but let's not forget what Christa did to Colleen Slemmer and the affect it had on her family.

I do think the judicial system in death penalty states is cruel and to execute someone after 30 years is wrong, but I can't get out of my mind what she dud to the victim. She has never shown remorse for it either.

Whitewavemark2

I can understand those whose say if it was one of their loved ones killed they would want the death penalty.

But honestly if it was rested on my final decision, I’m not sure what it would achieve. I would have to live with the knowledge that I (albeit indirectly) took a life and nothing has brought my child back.

I don’t think it helps one’s mental health remotely to know that the killer was put to death, because it doesn’t bring closure only revenge.

I would sleep better knowing that that evil monster could no longer kill anyone else.

Religions are not silly .... indeed not. They are terrifying... the misery wrought over the centuries in the name of religion strikes fear in my heart.
And still it goes on ....

www.danielkirkpatrick.co.uk/irish-history/ancient-irish-brehon-laws/

gives a full account of this alternative system.

As regards the current issue, let her remain in prison but have to take part in any restorative actions possible. the trouble is, in the USA and well here too because of lack of resources, we dont offer enough Restorative justice possibilities for major or minor offences.

I would not want someone who murdered a family member to be executed.
Blood on my hands.

and there are a few amazing examples of this like Stephen Laurences mother.

That's the funny thing about religion, it can do some much good, work for the good, and yet has also done some terrible terrible things.

It amazes me that people who condemn a violent act think it is reasonable to answer it with another violent act.

Luckygirl3 of course you are right. But do not be blind to the good it can do too. Some of the most caring people I know act from faith. A common or garden example is "Midwives". But take, for example, the Buddhist faith. Its key feature is to practice compassionate love.

Grandma70s

It amazes me that people who condemn a violent act think it is reasonable to answer it with another violent act.

👍

Horrendous and horrific in every way.

In the biblical sense, 'an eye for an eye' means that a legal punishment must fit the exact harm caused by a crime so any punishment is fair and proportionate.

Wyllow3

Luckygirl3 of course you are right. But do not be blind to the good it can do too. Some of the most caring people I know act from faith. A common or garden example is "Midwives". But take, for example, the Buddhist faith. Its key feature is to practice compassionate love.

I am not blind to this. Nor to the good wrought by those with no religion. For my money that is a safer way of doing good.

Buddhism itself is peaceful, but suppression of Buddhism has caused bloodshed. I always feel that if religions no longer existed at least one major cause of conflict would be eliminated. But this is clearly not going to happen any time soon!

Luckygirl3

*Religions are not silly* .... indeed not. They are terrifying... the misery wrought over the centuries in the name of religion strikes fear in my heart.
And still it goes on ....

Yet they have also done very much good and brought comfort to many as well, don’t forget that.

Smileless2012

In the biblical sense, 'an eye for an eye' means that a legal punishment must fit the exact harm caused by a crime so any punishment is fair and proportionate.

This is true.

I find it difficult to believe that any civilised country can still have a death penalty. What this woman did in 1995 as a young girl was, by any standards, absolutely appalling but it is generally accepted that if she had committed the same crime now, the history of abuse and her mental health diagnosis would preclude the death penalty. She has been kept in solitary confinement for much of the past 30 years, has admitted her guilt and regrets her actions. I would have thought that should have been enough to get her sentence commuted to life imprisonment with the possibility of parole at some point. It is about time that those states that keep the death penalty should be forced by federal action to change their laws. It is inhumane and barbaric.

It is indeed inhumane and barbaric, especially in the light of her mental illness and childhood trauma, and the fact that a death penalty would have been unlikely under current rules.

I can't honestly see Trump initiating any legislation to outlaw the death penalty.

I can’t see any President doing it.

Whitewavemark2

Peacelilydilly

Perhaps the victim's family would disagree, perhaps they would want the killer to suffer, perhaps they would think this is justice/karma.

That renders you the same as the killer.

We are above that. Or at least should be.

I agree

MT62

Whitewavemark2

I can understand those whose say if it was one of their loved ones killed they would want the death penalty.

But honestly if it was rested on my final decision, I’m not sure what it would achieve. I would have to live with the knowledge that I (albeit indirectly) took a life and nothing has brought my child back.

I don’t think it helps one’s mental health remotely to know that the killer was put to death, because it doesn’t bring closure only revenge.

I would sleep better knowing that that evil monster could no longer kill anyone else.

No one is suggesting that they are freed to commit another heinous crime ever again.

Whitewavemark2

Peacelilydilly

The bible says an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth

Blimey - I’d thought that we had advanced beyond such silliness.

It’s interesting how the teachings of the bible are dissed yet so many respect the archaic and misogynistic teachings of the Quran.

Agree with you WhiteWave and GG13,
but, if you are doing it, do it properly.

Agree with the folk who think it was wrong.

State sponsored murder is about revenge not justice. Serving life without parole is enough imho. And as well as those who lost a loved one and really want to see the perpetrator die there are also many who don’t and even find a way through their belief system to forgive the perpetrator which offers them some degree of comfort as well as closure.
I can’t say how I would feel, my initial feelings would probably be to rip the culprit limb from limb, which is of course why the law should not be dictated by those with skin in the game.

American incompetence. Their death penalty is inhumane.

Oreo

Smileless2012

In the biblical sense, 'an eye for an eye' means that a legal punishment must fit the exact harm caused by a crime so any punishment is fair and proportionate.

This is true.

One persons idea of what is proportionate is not another's, so I do not understand what you mean.

If you are referring to the Bible then there are different ideas of proportionate.

and here is the Torah. Its no clear at all.

www.chabadlive.com/41/judaism-and-capital-punishment/

Smileless2012

Medically qualified doctors and nurses are not allowed to administer the lethal dose due to major medical ethics which no doubt was why this happened.

Yet they an ethically euthanize a child; could not make it up!