Another traveller illegal traveller site, poor neighbours.

It would take days to lay tarmac, even longer if the area was the size of a field .

One rule for them another rule for the rest of us. Human rights again

Smileless2012

It would take days to lay tarmac, even longer if the area was the size of a field .

Sadly this is not the case, they are quick and clever it is apparently like a military operation.

www.thesun.co.uk/news/39235858/travellers-tarmac-field-bulldozers-diggers-blitz/

There are plenty of examples.

A favourite tactic is to operate over a bank holiday weekend when councils are closed.

I have seen school playgrounds and parks occupied by Travellers, and the amount, and type, of rubbish they leave behind is disgusting. Martin Clunes and his wife have been overruled in their fight against a permanent site next to their smallholding in another part of Dorset, the South,

I just don’t understand why these travellers think it’s ok to rock up on other peoples land.

I have no issue with traveller’s themselves, I’ve worked with a few, and near to one the Jobcentres to which I was attached, is a very large and quite notorious site. Council sold them half their site, and then, in true fashion, the travellers illegally took over the other half!

I have no issue with the way they live or their lifestyle choices, BUT I do object a lot to some them breaking the law, some refusing to pay taxes of any kind, some are not kind to animals, some leave their temporary sites in the most awful states. The latter is the thing I find most bizarre and abhorrent.

Having been in many vans and even enjoying cups of tea with static travellers, their vans are utterly spotless inside.

I worked with one family, strange set-up, one Dad, two families. Children did attend school, but all left around first or second year of Secondary School, boys joined Dad, learning to drive on their site, learning trades (sometimes very well, sometimes not so), but those poor girls, they joined Mums, learning and almost continuously cleaning and cooking. Then often being “married” off very young.

I’m aware that things have changed for some “tribes” or groups of travellers where women do get a much fairer deal.

If only travellers just agreed to live their way, keep their traditions but kept within the law, there would really be fewer issues.

It was interesting to meet the various different groups, on the large site I mentioned there were Irish, Scottish and English travellers, each had their own areas, not really mixing unless there was a wedding, birth or funeral!

Funerals were a particular issue, as some still carried on the traditional of burning the van of the deceased, so many times firemen were called out by nearby worried neighbours.

When my children were at Primary School our area had an influx of Roma Gypsy Travellers, from Eastern Europe. Children were, mainly, fine, however the parents appeared very “tribal” and often fought among each other.

Anyhow, I hope the police move on these groups near you OP, but they do then become other people’s problem.

You’re an optimist if you think your area offers no suitable sites for travelllers to decide to stay Sarnia, because they will stop in lay-bys, picnic spots, empty premise car parks, sports grounds, etc. etc. It’s a real problem for neighbours of wherever they decide is suitable, and the police moving them on just moves the problem on to somebody else.

There are different groups of travellers, with different sets of beliefs they live by, and some will settle on a permanent sites, given the opportunity, whereas others will never settle in one place.

Peacelilydilly

One rule for them another rule for the rest of us. Human rights again

I get your point, but it’s been like this for literally hundreds of years.

I agree, it doesn’t make it right, but it’s got little to do with “human rights”, travellers have been around for far far longer than “human rights”

Casdon

You’re an optimist if you think your area offers no suitable sites for travelllers to decide to stay Sarnia, because they will stop in lay-bys, picnic spots, empty premise car parks, sports grounds, etc. etc. It’s a real problem for neighbours of wherever they decide is suitable, and the police moving them on just moves the problem on to somebody else.

There are different groups of travellers, with different sets of beliefs they live by, and some will settle on a permanent sites, given the opportunity, whereas others will never settle in one place.

I completely agree!

Those “travellers” who actually still travel are often quite small groups and would stop on your front garden, or on the side of the road, should the notion take them!

It doesn't seem much of a life in the 21st Century.

If it’s your way of life though, you live by that set of rules, and are probably just as happy as everybody else with your lot. It is hard for us to understand.

I'm sure there are a contingent that don't cause all this mayhem. However, too many that do! they rock up, concrete over fields illegally, use playgrounds and other community facilities, they behave badly, leave piles of rubbish and excrement behind them which the Council then has to clear up. Involve themselves in illegal activities like hare coursing, mistreat their dogs. My step daughter volunteers for the RSPCA and has told me about the sorry state of the dogs that come in often removed by force from their encampments. Generally terrorise the neighbour hood. Someone I know had excrement and a dead dog slung over her fence in a small village where they'd sited themselves. They racially abused the Indian couple who ran the village store and post office during their time there as well as shoplifting. Friends of ours in the Cotswolds, tell us when travellers arrive in their nearby town for a visit the shops just go into lockdown

They get away with a whole raft of appalling behaviour and cry victim when people complain about them.

I worked with Travellers for some years and this is my take:

There are good and bad in every community and this is the same with Travellers as much as for any other group. I met those who I would never wish to see again and others whom I counted as friends.

Many are very religious and take the 10 commandments very seriously. Breaking the law is not an option for them and they are appalled by what some others do and the bad name it gives them.

One of the reasons that some Travellers act outside the law is because of the way that life has changed. Once they had a role in society travelling around and servicing the needs of rural communities for seasonal labour and being welcomed onto farmers' land. This is not an excuse for law-breaking but puts it in context.

Travellers do pay tax - not all of them obviously, but that applies to the settled community too who just find more subtle ways of tax avoidance.

LAs are obliged to provide sites for Travellers but they are between a rock and a hard place. Every time a site is proposed the objections fly in thick and fast and the process of getting it through is long and tortuous, whilst in the meantime there is nowhere for them to stop.

Educationally things are changing - I met lots of women who were pressing for Traveller girls to get a proper education and there are now lots of women in established professions. Getting these changes off the ground has been challenging but it is beginning to happen.

I worked on the Travellers' Times, a national magazine for Gypsies and Travellers. Their current editor is a Gypsy with a Cambridge degree.

The Traveller way of life is interesting, but hard for us to understand. Why when you own a big house and land (as many Travellers do) would you choose to live in a trailer in the grounds? It is part of their tradition and means a lot to them.

There were things that I found hard to swallow (settling disputes with fists) and things that I greatly admired (family loyalty and care of the elderly). I think I could also say that about any group of people.

I am not here to defend the taking over of sites and disrupting local communities - that is fundamentally wrong. I do not know what the answer to this is. I just wanted to put forward the perspective that they are not all bad.

There is quite a large permanent traveller site in the town near where I live. I used to work in the library in a community centre.
There was a snooker hall there and the men from the traveller site used to come regularly to play. They were always polite and well mannered and the caretaker said he had no problems with them.
Another site has sprung up recently and there has been vandalism and out of control children reported.
Not all travellers are the same.

Luckygirl3

I worked with Travellers for some years and this is my take:

There are good and bad in every community and this is the same with Travellers as much as for any other group. I met those who I would never wish to see again and others whom I counted as friends.

Many are very religious and take the 10 commandments very seriously. Breaking the law is not an option for them and they are appalled by what some others do and the bad name it gives them.

One of the reasons that some Travellers act outside the law is because of the way that life has changed. Once they had a role in society travelling around and servicing the needs of rural communities for seasonal labour and being welcomed onto farmers' land. This is not an excuse for law-breaking but puts it in context.

Travellers do pay tax - not all of them obviously, but that applies to the settled community too who just find more subtle ways of tax avoidance.

LAs are obliged to provide sites for Travellers but they are between a rock and a hard place. Every time a site is proposed the objections fly in thick and fast and the process of getting it through is long and tortuous, whilst in the meantime there is nowhere for them to stop.

Educationally things are changing - I met lots of women who were pressing for Traveller girls to get a proper education and there are now lots of women in established professions. Getting these changes off the ground has been challenging but it is beginning to happen.

I worked on the Travellers' Times, a national magazine for Gypsies and Travellers. Their current editor is a Gypsy with a Cambridge degree.

The Traveller way of life is interesting, but hard for us to understand. Why when you own a big house and land (as many Travellers do) would you choose to live in a trailer in the grounds? It is part of their tradition and means a lot to them.

There were things that I found hard to swallow (settling disputes with fists) and things that I greatly admired (family loyalty and care of the elderly). I think I could also say that about any group of people.

I am not here to defend the taking over of sites and disrupting local communities - that is fundamentally wrong. I do not know what the answer to this is. I just wanted to put forward the perspective that they are not all bad.

Thank you. A very balanced and accurate view and I agree wholeheartedly with all you state.

AGAA4

There is quite a large permanent traveller site in the town near where I live. I used to work in the library in a community centre.
There was a snooker hall there and the men from the traveller site used to come regularly to play. They were always polite and well mannered and the caretaker said he had no problems with them.
Another site has sprung up recently and there has been vandalism and out of control children reported.
Not all travellers are the same.

👏👏👍👍

www.travellerstimes.org.uk/features/build-first-ask-later-what-englands-new-planning-rules-really-mean-gypsies-and-travellers

This is an up to date summary of the planning laws that apply to everyone, including Gypsies and Travellers.

It is written by Claire Rice. "I am a Romany Gypsy woman born and raised in Essex. I am also Project Coordinator at GaTEssex CIC, a community-led organisation supporting Gypsy and Traveller people across Essex and beyond. Alongside lived experience, I bring years of frontline advocacy work, safeguarding experience, professional training, and academic study in criminology and psychology."

An educated Traveller woman. There are lots of them about - they just do not make the headlines.

I am no apologist for illegal activity by anyone, Traveller or Gorja, but the other side of the coin needs to be heard sometimes.

This is the latest edition of Travellers' Times and might give some insight into the "other side."

www.travellerstimes.org.uk/

Luckygirl3 Thanks for your balanced post, this has been my experience too. Like all communities there's good and bad. I was chair of governors of our local school which generally has one or two traveller children in class. They have never, to my knowledge been a problem and the local site is also not a problem. A friend has a property which is adjacent to another local site. She has expensive dressage horses and the travellers have coloured horses and ponies on their land. There is mutual co-operation and respect of boundaries. Last year there was a big traveller gathering over a weekend on the site, my friend was told in advance and reassured there would be no trouble and no mess left. It was noisy but once they had gone, life was absolutely normal again. Of course not all travellers behave well and we have had recent hare coursing activity on land adjacent to mine. It's not only illegal it is, in my view, extremely cruel. We keep out field gates locked and neighbours always warn us if there are travellers on the move in the vicinity as I would not welcome an illegal site.

greyfur16

It doesn't seem much of a life in the 21st Century.

They have a great life. All the latest mod cons.

Yes of course there are respectful law abiding travellers but I don’t adhere to the romantic notion of them travelling around the country shearing sheep, picking apples and sharpening knives.

They have had to adapt as “the old ways” have disappeared.

My SIL was threatened by one, she told him “ we have different rules to you and ways of dealing with people like you”.
She was employed by typical council as a Romany advisor and educator, her specialism was conflict resolution.

A good friend opened a business, travellers appeared on his land and car park then demanded £20,000 to leave.

I personally believe that they have got away with too much for too long and it needs to stop.

We have a common near us. One neighbour decided to remove all the surrounding bushes. He’s even put new grass down & signs up deterring dog walkers of not leaving their dog muck.
There is now nothing to stop travellers settling on this common.
I am surprised the council allowed it.
TBF, he’s done a cracking job.

Smileless2012

It would take days to lay tarmac, even longer if the area was the size of a field .

They are shrewd. The larger fields are often tarmacked over a Bank Holiday weekend when offices are shut for 3-4 days.

There are law breakers in every walk of life, but travellers cannot cite their lifestyle as good enough reason to break the law. As with those who build extensions etc., without planning permission, the council will in flagrant cases demolish the building, in which case the council should be able to go in and demolish the hard standing the caravans are on and with the help of the police evict the travellers.
It is not fair if the majority of us have to obey the law and pay our dues that some - not all - travellers just do as they please.
Some caravans shipped up on a piece of spare land near us that once housed a supermarket, in London that is prime real estate, so the police soon showed up and evicted them but they left a horrible mess behind that didn’t get cleaned up for ages because it was private land.

I think the people living in the HMOS are just as bad with the amount of crap they leave on the back & side streets.
They all want leaflets on how to dispose, recycle their rubbish.
Could add to that list how to hang a pair of curtains.