Significant rise in both anti-semitism and Islamophobia

What could be fuelling the increase in Islamaphobia?

There has always been antisemitism, long before the present conflict and I just don't understand why. Justifying or 'explaining' the current surge in the context of opposition to the Israeli government is unfeeling to say the least. Either you condemn antisemitism or you don't.

What do they say about people who start with "I'm not racist....."

The 2021 census put Jews as 0.5% of the UK population, and Muslims as 6.5% of the UK population. The number of incidents of antisemitism is a much higher percentage than the equivalent Islamophobic incidents. Jews are definitely the most vulnerable group in present day society. All prejudice and oppression is wrong, none can be justified, and it all needs stamping out.

Yes, Rosie, it all has to end.

Agree Rosie , for me laying blame on Gaza is denial of antisemitism,

Maremia

What could be fuelling the increase in Islamaphobia?

Fear.------fear of strangers. The Pope has gone to a mosque, removed his shoes, attended the service. Afterwards he reassured Christians that Islam is good.

Conflating the Jewish population with whatever the state of Israel is doing is the continuing problem. The historical predicament of how the colonial powers divided up the Middle East by drawing lines in the sand and ignoring how that would impact on the settled populations should not be heaped upon the shoulders of the Jewish population per se. Post war, their exodus wasn't just from Europe. Many Jews for example had lived in the Arab world. Iraq for instance, had a thriving population of 150,000 Jews who lived alongside their fellow Arabs in harmony until the mid 20th century. They were more or less driven out by escalating persecution and pogroms, by a nationalistic government that colluded with Nazi Germany to overthrow British Rule. The Jewish population were the scapegoats once again in that instance. Businesses looted, hundreds killed which became a turning point for their mass exodus. Many would have preferred to stay in Iraq a place they were far more familiar with. Iraqi, Mizrahi Jews had more in common with their Arabic neighbours than they had with their European, Ashkenazi counterparts. A population that should not be conflated with the Zionism of Theodor Herzl, they were more than happy to go on living where they were in peace but as usual that was not to be. Now there is no Jewish presence in Iraq to speak of. These people were not instrumental in the setting up of the state of Israel or responsible for the Pandora's Box of ills that flow out of that, anymore than the Jewish communities around the world are. We don't know where random Jewish people's loyalties are lined up, and as some of well known Jewish people have stated, "why should they always be expected to defend their position of just being Jewish" . It's really not good enough to say "I'm not anti semetic" if in decrying the undoubted ills that the Netanyahu government are inflicting on the Palestinians there is a subliminal undertone of well "that's the Jews for you, they're to blame for most of the world's ills" Because I'm afraid that's often what comes across from the political parties who shout the loudest about defending all minorities.

👏👏👏. Terribull. I fear for my Jewish family, who have historically had nothing to do with Israel.

Caleo

Is there a consortium of religions together that 'worship; together and meet together socially in other ways such as lunches in each others; premises----sort of interfaith organisation?

If there is such an interfaith organisation are there particular sections of society that would not be interested in attending?

Yes, there are, across the country, interfaith groups. I'm in two, one general one, one just for us women. and yes Jewish and Muslim people do sit down together. And C or E with other Christian based groups

They have been going going for some substantial time Caleo

Requirements? an open heart and mind and a willingness to spend time building bridges not slag each other off or attack. Just meeting people as people.

SueDonim

👏👏👏. Terribull. I fear for my Jewish family, who have historically had nothing to do with Israel.

We over estimate how much people including even at university level know and understand their history.

We belong mostly to a generation that was brought up with he horrors of the holocaust and "never again"

- yet, even then, there was a lot of antisemitism that grew out of Moseley just before WW2

and then goes back a very very long way indeed historically as in "it was the Jews who killed Jesus"

or the long, long standing far right hatred and no way has that gone away despite far right groups suddenly apparently experiencing a dawning of the light. I don't believe it for a moment.

How many young or indeed older people are actually really aware of the complex history of the establishment of Israel and the non recognition of Palestine at the same time? the long long troubled history of that area?

The difference between happening to be Jewish and those who want the more extreme forms of Zionist?

The constant use of "Israel" to include those in Israel who actually oppose Netanyahu's regime, instead of talking about "the current Regime"

Very very few when it comes down to it.

Anti -semitism and Islamophobia are two sides of the same coin, using either the appalling actions of Islamic extremists or the behaviour of the Israeli government whilst conducting the war in Gaza to attack people of either the Muslim or Jewish faith is IMO, just an excuse to be racist. I recently visited the Anne Frank House in Amsterdam and it was a sharp reminder, not that I needed reminding, of how the "othering" of any section of a population can lead to horrific consequences. I don't want any group in our society to be seen as less worthy as any other, it is always wrong. There is no hierarchy of rights, if we live in the UK we are all subject to the same laws, rights and responsibilities.

I have attended such interfaith events and found them uplifting. Sadly, I suspect that they would hold little appeal for the groups who see " others" as wrong, and their world view right.
Actually, my experience of history teaching in school is that it is well taught, nanna8.
Unfortunately we cannot control what students hear at home/ on the internet/ from adults with their own agenda.
I was horrified to read, on a recent thread, about a young Holocaust denier.
He will certainly not have learned this from his history syllabus.

I cannot seeing it ever getting better. Do hope I am proved wrong. People are in Ghettos almost, not integrated into society so how can it improve. If Jewish people want to leave the UK where would they go? Be interested to know.

I just can't understand this hatred. I know Jewish people stick together because of the holocaust, this gives them a bond like no other nationality. I wonder if it's envy because they're extremely successful and well educated as a whole.

The Jewish people I've known have been law abiding, well educated and straightforward to deal with. I feel ashamed to live in a country where Jewish people fear for their lives.

I think a lot of Jewish people are heading for Israel.

I can never understand Holocaust deniers, such overwhelming evidence to the contrary. A monumental act of evil that took place in the 20th century, living testaments, the remains of concentration camps, photographic evidence. It wasn't an event that occurred back in the mists of time. The flagrant denial of the Holocaust is as idiotic as believing the world is flat, sail too far into the distance and a vessel could well fall into some unexplained void. Such a strange parallel universe some seem to inhabit, what's their problem other than s**t for brains I do wonder

Maremia

What could be fuelling the increase in Islamaphobia?

Terrorism, the scores of fighting age men arriving here on boats, the many sexual assaults, rapes and attacks on women by immigrants, the Pakistani grooming scandal and huge cover up by Police and government, the two tier justice system, the honour killings, the treatment of women and I could go on and on.

Do you remember the Batley school teacher forced into hiding because he used a cartoon of Mohammed as part of a lesson on free speech, this man was offered no protection by Police

Imagine if a Muslim teacher was hounded by so many parents, pupils and the local community, I can guarantee the outcome would have been very different.

All of the above is fuelling the increase in Islamophobia
Our culture and identity are being threatened and our freedom of speech is all but gone.

Right…….I am ready for the onslaught.

I think you may be right barmcake about envy. People often have the perception that Jews are all wealthy and some of course are.
As a child I remember hearing that Jews were "rolling in money" or "filthy rich". Of course that will make people jealous. They don't take into account that those Jews have worked hard at school and in business to acquire their wealth and not all are wealthy.

Those I know aren't rich and tend to live quiet lives. Why they are targeted by antisemites I can't understand as they never cause trouble and go about their daily lives harming nobody.

TerriBull

I can never understand Holocaust deniers, such overwhelming evidence to the contrary. A monumental act of evil that took place in the 20th century, living testaments, the remains of concentration camps, photographic evidence. It wasn't an event that occurred back in the mists of time. The flagrant denial of the Holocaust is as idiotic as believing the world is flat, sail too far into the distance and a vessel could well fall into some unexplained void. Such a strange parallel universe some seem to inhabit, what's their problem other than s**t for brains I do wonder

I couldn't agree with you more TerriBull. These people must be crazy. There are people alive today who still have the number tattoos.

TerriBull. I agree with most of your excellent post earlier, but I do have a question about the very last sentence, where you claim that people say "that's the Jews for you, they're to blame for most of the world's ills" Because I'm afraid that's often what comes across from the political parties who shout the loudest about defending all minorities.

I don't think I've come across anybody who claims to be antisemitic and then says something contradictory, as you claim. I've come across people who do blame Jews for the prejudice they experience. I've also seen posts on social media blaming Jews for controlling the world's finances and being in some kind of cabal. I don't think those people would even claim to be antisemitic because it's blatantly obvious that they are.

I am one of those who thinks Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir and Smotrich etc are monsters and think the punishment meted out to Gaza for the atrocities of 7 October is disproportionate. I also think Netanyahu's aim is to grab land in Gaza, Lebanon and the West Bank but I am not antisemitic. I don't think Jews deserve what they get. I know they've been treated appallingly throughout history and I don't have anything against Jews having a land of their own, although it was never going to be easy. That's why Balfour and the rest kicked the problem down the road for so long until their hand was forced by WW2. I think there's a tendency to see any criticism of Israel as antisemitic and I don't think that's a very good basis for a rational discussion.

Historically my city has a very very small Jewish population. there is a thriving centre, but no schools - lessons are after school, as are Muslim lessons. But pupils are integrated into the schools that we already have. Some minor incidents around a tiny far left campaign leafleting for boycotting goods from Israel. Reports of fear have arisen, this mainly due to actions by University Students at the height of the pro Palestine marches.

Our population is 10.3% non white. We have just one Muslim school with 78 pupils. Most go to the local primary/secondary schools as per. Probably as benign as you can get in a big city.

Helpful for Interfaith? Probably.

Right…….I am ready for the onslaught.

You won't get any from me Sago. You forgot to mention beheading, burning people in cages and throwing homosexuals off buildings.

When I lived in Turkey I saw a dog burned alive because it had bitten a man who kicked it. I was told that Mohammed was bitten by a dog and that their saliva would contaminate Muslims. Away from the tourist areas the treatment of animals was heart wrenching.

AGAA4

I think you may be right barmcake about envy. People often have the perception that Jews are all wealthy and some of course are.
As a child I remember hearing that Jews were "rolling in money" or "filthy rich". Of course that will make people jealous. They don't take into account that those Jews have worked hard at school and in business to acquire their wealth and not all are wealthy.

Those I know aren't rich and tend to live quiet lives. Why they are targeted by antisemites I can't understand as they never cause trouble and go about their daily lives harming nobody.

I used to hear that too. If people work hard and are successful then they deserve to be wealthy.

They do lead quiet lives and tend to keep their own counsel. All positives in my book.

barmcake

I think a lot of Jewish people are heading for Israel.

Yes.
Many British Jewish people already own second homes or residential properties in Israel. They use them them for holidays, or religious festivals. I don't doubt that some of them see them as future retirement homes or even safe havens to escape to if the situation becomes unbearable. I think around 70% have family there.

This in itself can create its own tensions, because some people view this as Jews having their cake and eating it. Yes, jealously is in there too to some extent.

Anyone who thinks that Jews have enjoyed wealthy lives should try reading Hadley Freeman's "House of Glass" an account of 3 generations of her family, grandparents who left Poland in the 30s, for France. In Poland they lived at subsistence level, barely having enough to eat. The fact that they prospered was down to ingenuity and sheer hard work. Jews are not the only demographic who have fled their country with nothing, only to turn things around in a generation, Ugandan Asians are another resounding success story.

The hideous trope of "you lot killed Jesus" has stalked the Jews throughout history. If that wasn't bad enough now we have the justification of vilifying them through the government of Israel. Interestingly, there's a deafening silence as to the slaughter of other demographics at the hands of those who they would see themselves affiliated with. Sudanese genocide, slaughter of Christians in Nigeria. Nope! not a whisper, far too busy in their all encompassing critique of Israel as the world's worst aggressors.

I have no words other than ' I despair '