Non spiky Politics

There is a thread currently about ICE.
Personally, I have next to know idea what that is.
[I dont have enough time to look into everything that I might want to].

Fancythat sorry, do you mean you’re not aware of ICE and their role in USA Border Control?

I’m asking as I’m happy to quickly explain, not to criticise you in any way

I have heard of them.
Think they are American.
Possibly something to do with immigration.
I think that is literally all I personally know.

This is partly why I have started the non judgemental politics thread.
I doubt I am the only voter who knows next to nothing about ICE.
And maybe other things too.

And not the only voter who is time limited.

There is also a poster on one of the threads today, not even sure it is a news and politics one, who is afraid to say what she really thinks about politics, or a policy, I forget quite what, for fear of judgement.

I dont agree with politics being taboo in some way. Anywhere.
[As long as no one posts against GN rules and the rules of the Gransnet Cafe.]

Everyone should and can post their true feelings (within the rules), but they also need to expect others to disagree or even ask them “why” they have their views.

This can lead to quite passionate and volatile responses.

I know lots here disagree with my steely held views and that’s perfectly ok. So long as it’s my views being discussed and not me (& I apply this to everyone one else too).

I admire your optimism fancythat, I think the politics thread may start off in fairly calm waters but gradually the spikes develop to such an extent Vlad the Impaler would have found a good use for them

So, ICE…

AI

“ U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) is a federal law enforcement agency operating under the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS).

Established in March 2003 under the Homeland Security Act of 2002, ICE was formed following the September 11 attacks by merging the investigative and interior enforcement elements of the former U.S. Customs Service and the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS).”

In theory, a good idea.

In practice, not quite so.

Some of those employed, and armed with guns, received what some might consider inadequate training in their new roles and weaponry, in both quality and quantity of time.

Sadly, there have been shootings of non-migrant USA citizens, by ICE (at least two separate incidents) and they are perceived by many USA citizens as overly aggressive and given too much freedom by Trump.

That’s as balanced a view as I can manage.

Hope it helps.

I deliberately posted this in the Gransnet cafe, so am hoping things get kept within the Gransnet Cafe rules - a non-judgemental space and no arguments allowed.

That was to TerriBull.

TerriBull

I admire your optimism fancythat, I think the politics thread may start off in fairly calm waters but gradually the spikes develop to such an extent Vlad the Impaler would have found a good use for them

😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣

But we can try really hard not to be Vlad.

^That’s as balanced a view as I can manage.

Hope it helps.^

Thanks.

Well it’s a good idea fancythat so we will see how it goes.
My worry about politics is… can Andy Burnham really deliver both optimism ( doing ok so far) and policies that help the economy grow? He is more personable than KS and can talk the talk but no signs so far, and I admit it’s early days, of any radical policies both for the economy and social issues or defence spending.I fear we may just get more tinkering round the edges.It’s important ( to me) as I want to see Labour get five more years and this country of ours improving rather than sinking into the mire.

Oreo

Well it’s a good idea fancythat so we will see how it goes.
My worry about politics is… can Andy Burnham really deliver both optimism ( doing ok so far) and policies that help the economy grow? He is more personable than KS and can talk the talk but no signs so far, and I admit it’s early days, of any radical policies both for the economy and social issues or defence spending.I fear we may just get more tinkering round the edges.It’s important ( to me) as I want to see Labour get five more years and this country of ours improving rather than sinking into the mire.

I have to agree.

Big hopes pinned on him, I truly hope he can deliver as I think his “plans” could transform and improve many people’s lives.

Of course, it won’t suit all and not everyone will support him.

I think "some" of the benefits are unsustainable and frankly quite nonsensical. Conditions such as ADHD used as an excuse for not working and drawing benefits, ridiculous. Pretty sure one of my sons has it, he's always worked, he wouldn't want in any other way. I think it can be managed and those who have it need to be encouraged not to use it as an excuse. That's just one example, a friend was telling us about the mobility scheme and how pretty expensive cars are available to those on it when did that become a thing? Also in his Lib Dem controlled town, putting in an incredibly wide cycle lane, hardly used, so they in their wisdom got rid of it. Just acres and acres of wasted money in so many areas.

Meanwhile we all know we need to build up our very run down defense budget, yes I know that all started during David Cameron's tenure. It should be upped and some of the benefit budget needs to come under scrutiny. Way too much waste.

Don't get me started on Rachel Reeves' lack of financial acumen that has been ruinous for business. Unfortunately Rishi Sunak inherited a poison chalice too late but I'd wager he'd have made more savvy decisions around growing the economy than RR,

Politics is spiky fancythat. There’s no getting away from that fact.

Terribull ,I believe notability users pay a deposit for their car..the more expensive then the bigger the deposit…and they use their benefits to pay the payments.
Of course they could just keep the cash and use it for taxi,s but that often isn,t practical.
It’s NOT a free car

I once went out with a guy who I found out was claiming all sorts of benefits including a car because of his bad back (the car got changed for a better one every year or two) He had nothing wrong with him and I found out he carried a stick in his boot for when he was called in to the benefits office.
Of course I didn’t continue going out with him but this was about 35/40 years ago so it’s been going on a LONG LONG time Terribull

This is a non-judgemental space for you to pop in for a cuppa with some virtual friends, seek out advice for a particular problem, or share an update on your life - important or trivial. Feel free to have your say and chat about your day, but please leave any arguments at the door.

Even about Politics.
Non-judgemental and no arguments.

Glad you didn’t marry him BlueBelle 😲
Yes, cheaters and spongers have been around forever.

Terribull Seaking as someone whose son and grandson, as well as myself have ADHD, I am in complete agreement with you. ADHD except in the most exceptional cases.

I think it would help those with it to have some counselling to learn how to manage it. DS and I have had to work it out for ourselves. i do think, as a child, I would have benefitted from having the condition explained so that I understood my own behaviour better and also techniques for mitigating it. As time has gone by, I have become adept at recognising when it is taking me over and have developed techniques to deal with it. They are not always successful, but they do help.

My bee in the bonnet right now is how awful so many of our High Streets have become with vape shops ,Turkish barbers, nail bars and small unregulated shops that sell cigarettes laced with sawdust and rat droppings for cheap prices or drugs if you want them.Manned by, quite often, asylum seekers who also work for Deliveroo and similar. These streets are oh so depressing to walk down and they seem to be ( almost) everywhere.The only answer is for constant raids on them.

I would just be happy for more non spiky threads on any subject.

I am censoring myself on GN and avoiding argumentative content.

I don’t understand the purpose of this thread. No arguments? What do you mean?

An argument is (I’m quoting OED here) an assertion or fact put forward in order to persuade or sway others.

Politics is all about argument. It’s why we have political parties which stand for different things. The Houses of Parliament are where people from opposing parties come together precisely to argue. MPs and peers make speeches containing arguments to try to persuade others.

Are you just wanting people to say, I think this. or I think that. without anybody having a right of reply?

Forgive me, but in telling people they cannot argue you are thread policing … which is against talk guidelines.