Non spiky Politics

Forgive me, but in telling people they cannot argue you are thread policing … which is against talk guidelines.

It is the GN guidelines of the Gransnet cafe, given by GN.
Written at the start. By GN.
This thread is purposely in the Gransnet cafe.

The Gransnet cafe is a non judgemental and non argumentative place, it says.

That's just one example, a friend was telling us about the mobility scheme and how pretty expensive cars are available to those on it hmm when did that become a thing?

TerriBull my grandson, well his parents, get a mobility car because of his disabilities. To qualify you have to have a higher rate mobility award as part of your PIP or other payment. You sacrifice the whole of this element to pay the lease charge to Motability. Some cars come with no additional payment others you have to pay what can be a hefty advance payment depending on your choice. It really isn't the free for all some people think. Our family would much rather he didn't qualify and could lead a normal life.

What I like to see is politicians from different parties being friendly and polite to each other. It was actually good to see Keir Starmer and Kemi Badenoch walking together and chatting amiably. Makes you wonder how much of the stuff in Parliament is actually play acting and the ‘real ‘ differences are a whole heap less than we are led to believe. Performance politics ?

I wonder that too nanna8.

I remember, years ago, when Donald Dewer died. I think that was his name.
It seemed like everyone in Politics[I dont know which Party he was in], came out and said what a great bloke he had been.

Rosie51

^That's just one example, a friend was telling us about the mobility scheme and how pretty expensive cars are available to those on it hmm when did that become a thing?^

TerriBull my grandson, well his parents, get a mobility car because of his disabilities. To qualify you have to have a higher rate mobility award as part of your PIP or other payment. You sacrifice the whole of this element to pay the lease charge to Motability. Some cars come with no additional payment others you have to pay what can be a hefty advance payment depending on your choice. It really isn't the free for all some people think. Our family would much rather he didn't qualify and could lead a normal life.

The higher payment is £320 a month to pay for transport, quite a lot choose a premium car rather than a ordinary one using the PIP to top up cost.

nanna8

What I like to see is politicians from different parties being friendly and polite to each other. It was actually good to see Keir Starmer and Kemi Badenoch walking together and chatting amiably. Makes you wonder how much of the stuff in Parliament is actually play acting and the ‘real ‘ differences are a whole heap less than we are led to believe. Performance politics ?

Oh I believe that most politicians can and do behave with civility towards each other outside of the bear pit aka the HoC.
Our political system is adversarial but I would really like major parties to cooperate more in on big issues and especially on the cost of living crisis and security issues at a time of global insecurity/Russian aggression with the US proving to be an unpredictable ally.

David49 I think you'll find that the range of cars available has been quite reduced, or it was when my son got his new one this year. Do you have actual experience of the motability scheme or just theoretical?

I think non spiky politics is a bit like non acrimonious divorce fancythat, good in theory but mostly impossible in practice.

You can always count on someone to get their dander up when certain subjects are "discussed": religion, vegetarianism (the conversation can even heat up between vegans and vegetarians, you don't even need a meat-eater in the mix) and of course politics. A non-spiky politics thread would be great but I think it's one of those ideal hypothetical discussions that humans seem incapable of achieving. Other than this less than helpful response, I'm staying out of it!

Non spiky politics, how lovely. "Yawn"

what I really want from the gov't is a decent NHS and welfare state, I had a real struggle on my own with 2 kids in my 30's because I had serious health issues which weren't then diagnosed.
So I favour kind politics and welfare state for those who come after me. There always will be state scroungers but research shows the number is very low, also plenty of rich people evade taxes which is equally inexcusable since nobody really needs that amount of money.
So I vote Labour, there are things that I don't agree with, depending who is in charge, but much more that I do.
I don't like the way reform want to manage immigration though it does need managing and restricting, I'm all for people really running from war to stay here a while.

Terribull 11:55 some of the points you raise are sensible and worth discussing.

ADHD, like all “neurodiverse conditions, appears to work across a spectrum.

My oldest DD is a Primary School teacher, mainly with infants. As an adult she had two very detailed separate assessments via a physiologist, and was diagnosed with both Autism and ADHD. She is considered “high functioning”, what might have been previously been called “Aspergers”. She had good school attendance throughout, and has had three days off sick since she started teaching, she’s 29.

However, a good friend had a son, diagnosed very early with the same two conditions, he ended up in residential care as a child, at 18 into supported accommodation and receives full benefits.

DD2 has a serious mental health condition, referred to CAHMS at 14, who were totally useless and discharged at 19 to adult services, who were equally useless and finally diagnosed and treated privately at around 23 years old. She’s 26 now. She’s worked all the way through, choosing not to attend University. She’s again considered “high functioning” and with weekly therapy AND anti psychotic medication is handling things well.

However, the condition she has is absolutely appalling and many others aren’t lucky enough to pay for therapy (waiting lists are years long) and some commit suicide before they even come close to the top of list for a diagnosis let alone medication and therapy.

Therefore these people will be on benefits.

Motability scheme

Those claiming full mobility via PIP are allowed to “swap” their entire mobility award, along with a deposit, for a car. These choose from an allowed lust, all new cars are expensive. Many are large enough to hold a wheelchair.

It’s very hard to get full mobility on PIP, you have to do more than walk into the assessment with a limp.

I don’t think RR made great decisions and personally I didn’t much care for him.

Sunak made some great decisions, but in Covid though both the furlough and HMRC self employments scheme were very well received, a huge amount of resource and cash had to be used afterwards, for several years, to help claw back error and fraud as not sufficient resource was used to assess claims.

I agree we need to bolster up defence, particularly given the current world climate.

Not agreements, simply my take on your comments.

I struggle to know what I want done with the NHS.
I dont know what the answers are.

To spabbygirl post.

forgive me, but telling people they can’t argue you are thread policing…… which is against talk guidelines
The last time this happened it didn’t bode well 😥

GN rules of Gransnet cafe

Welcome to the *Gransnet Café. This is a non-judgemental space for you to pop in for a cuppa with some virtual friends, seek out advice for a particular problem, or share an update on your life - important or trivial. Feel free to have your say and chat about your day, but please leave any arguments at the door. If you're struggling to find someone to talk to in real life, or are simply looking for a bit of a chat, this is the place for you.

OldFrill

Non spiky politics, how lovely. "Yawn"

Exactly. I really enjoy the News and Politics threads precisely because of the divergency in views. Sometimes, I think that I learn more from opinions with which I don't agree, than those that I do agree with. Even if my views remain as they were, I have more understanding as to why posters hold their views.

Exactly TheatreLover.

One of my worries is climate change. Not for me as I'm ancient but my GC mostly.
While we have climate change deniers like Trump not much will be done or is it already too late?
We used to get heavy snow in my area years ago but only see a small amount now.
Summers are unbearably hot.

Maybe it is too late now.

I don't believe Gransnet Cafe is the place for N & P which is often about robust debate.
I think it's meant for gentler topics that you might have with friends over coffee and cake.

Casdon

Politics is spiky fancythat. There’s no getting away from that fact.

I think that's inevitable, as there is a basic conflict between those who want to make life better for the people doing the work, and those who want to keep differentials between workers and employers and others who otherwise benefit from the fact that there is a section of society on low incomes.

That is a huge simplification, but it comes into play when there are debates about things like minimum wage, renters' rights and so on.

It is natural to want to keep what you have, and equally it is natural to want to have a reasonably comfortable life, particularly if you are working to support yourself and your family. When those things are in conflict then of course people get spiky.

There is also a difference in what people see 'working hard' means. As an example, someone I know says 'we' (ie she and her husband) worked hard to get what they had, but she stayed at home for most of her working life, doing things that working women did as well as going to work. I don't think she worked hard at all - she had a cleaner as soon as she went to work aged around 50, and she retired at 55. But she thinks my generation had it easy, as we had automatic washing machines and disposable nappies, despite working full-time for most of our careers.

Similarly, many people see having a good income, or high levels of qualifications as proof of having worked hard, whilst others see manual labour as the only work that is 'hard'.

It's the same with housing - everyone thinks they have 'worked hard' to pay for their houses, when it is clear that some had huge uplift from inflation and others didn't - two people could have had exactly the same employer, doing the same work at the same level, but in a different part of the country, which meant that one's house increased in value far more than the other - so putting things down to hard work is hard to justify when looked at objectively. Someone buying a house today will pay significantly more for it in real terms than their neighbour who bought an identical one 50 years ago. Who worked harder to pay the mortgage?

Are none of these people right, or all of them?

Regardless, 'this lot worked harder than that lot' is a deeply held belief, whether from one side or another, so when a policy looks like it will disadvantage a 'hard-working' group, some will cheer and others will boo.

OldFrill

Non spiky politics, how lovely. "Yawn"

😂🤣😂🤣😂

AGAA4

I don't believe Gransnet Cafe is the place for N & P which is often about robust debate.
I think it's meant for gentler topics that you might have with friends over coffee and cake.

Yes! I have contributed and hope my ICE info was helpful for Fancythat, I’ll not be returning here, simply because I love a robust debate and discussion and that is simply an “argument” by a different name.

I bid you all a good day and see you again on another thread, no doubt

Doodledog
Yes. I was speaking with someone yesterday.
He said "we make our own luck".
I said "well sometimes". He looked startled.

Thanks for your reply Cossy to my previous post which I thought was nicely couched, insomuch as no visible spikes, well nothing that Vlad would find at all useful

So I'll take on board what I've learned about the Mobility scheme, in fact to be honest I didn't really know much about it at all. It's just we've had friends staying, it came up in conversation, my friend's husband said he knew someone gaming the system, it was quite a complicated story. So we were having a general conversation about how tax payers' money is wasted in certain areas. He, is recently retired from the MOD and told us the money that gets wasted there is epic, not just millions but possibly billions. He went there from the private sector and almost in every respect he was of the opinion that there is a laissez faire attitude from ordering equipment costing millions that's not fit for purpose right through to fiddling expenses. His thoughts were where he'd been employed previously there was far more scrutiny and far more accountability. In many respects he found the way public money is wasted was a complete eye opener, not in a good way because he was very shocked at what he perceived as a cavalier attitude.