Guardian article - i never want you around your grandchild

Thanks for sharing. Is an interesting read and useful for those whose experiences are similar to those mentioned in the piece.

Some children have to go no contact, I understand that. It’s very complicated. Every situation is different. No one should have to put up with abuse or made to feel worthless. Neither should loving parents be just discarded.

Agree Allsorts.

"Whenever I’d read stories about estrangement, I’d think, ‘But you must have done something,’ says Caroline, a gently spoken professional woman from the north of England, over the phone. But that was before one of her own adult children stopped talking to her."

"her daughter burst into tears and said she was struggling to reconcile the mother she had now with “how horrible you were” when she was little."

"there are things I (Caroline) regret. I can think of one occasion when I lost my temper and I wish I hadn’t."

It's interesting how she thinks the past isn't relevant, and that she hasn't "done something" to end up estranged. Oh well.

Also, if she can "think of one occasion", than dollars to doughnuts her daughter can think of multiple occasions.

The axe forgets but the tree remembers.

We all have moments we regret bringing up our children. It must have been pretty bad for the child to ostracise her mother. I once lost it with one of mine and mentioned it years later to her. She couldn’t remember the incident at all. Funny things, memories.

Over under, what a ridiculous judgemental analysis about a person you know nothing about or her daughter.

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Well, I think the cases mentioned in the article are useful, as I said, if those estranged can identify with them, but there are just a few obviously and so is not representative of all family estrangements, nor is it meant to be.
I think is also wrong to pick out one case and seek to read too much into it, as the saying goes ‘a little knowledge is a dangerous thing’.
A comment BTL on this article also recommends ‘Down the rabbit hole’ a blog popular with a Reddit forum for estranged ACs which seems to relish using abusive language about EPs as well as members trolling these threads. So that kind of puts me off going any further with this discussion seeing as I doubt it will lead to a balanced debate.

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Another rude Reddit poster, reported.

Over under, on thing you do know about me is that I don't have foul mouthed rants and judge.

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Thank you for sharing the article Still. I found it interesting but for me, not particularly well balanced. Virtually nothing was said about estrangement due to the influence of a third party and when it was, it was inline with parents being careful about criticising their AC's partner.

Reddit does seem to be the 'go too' forum for those EAC wishing to denigrate EP's in general I agree Babs and then of course we get 'new' posters here in GN doing the same.

When they post here, rather than doing us any harm I always think they do themselves and possibly other EAC a disservice. by being incapable of entering into a mature and balanced debate, and being unable or unwilling to express themselves without resorting to insults.

Thank you for sharing this. I am very interested in this idea that our children could physically or emotionally distance themselves. How many of us could have children that have emotionally distanced and we would never really know what we are missing because they are still ticking all the boxes we call "respect"? I think it is clear to me that newer generations have access to a wealth of information about healthy relationships that we did not have before the age of computers but none of us are too old to learn. The past cannot be changed but in the present it can be overcome and the future can be different and that is our responsibility. We have to be able to recognise sometimes that our best at the time is not the best we were capable of if we were armed with knowledge and able to heal from the things that hurt us. These are our children but they are adults now, we have to balance the truth that they always need a loving parent but they also need respect as adults in charge of their own lives. We have to understand that love and support and respect are the same thing and be proud of our children for doing things differently than we did. Thank you again for sharing, this written piece is a map of pitfalls so many have walked through blind.

I threatened my mother with estrangement many years ago. I had been divorced and a lone parent for 11 years and hadn't been on a single date (or even thought about it) during that time. Then at the age of 33, I met David who became my second husband. My mother refused to accept him, which either meant not talking to him at all or being appallingly rude to him. I had always been very caring of my mum, who had been widowed in 1978, and she was very involved in my life. I knew her attitude towards David was driven by sub conscious jealousy. She had been used to having me all to herself. For a few years I continued to invite her to stay for Christmas, Easter, my birthday etc and I tried to "pretend" everything was normal. David was always very polite and accommodating of my mum but it made no difference and in the end the situation became untenable. I remember vividly one Christmas morning standing in the kitchen with my mother and her sneering so unpleasantly about David. I suddenly plucked up the courage to say that either she accepted my relationship or I would never speak to her again. She looked at me as if a thunder bolt had hit her. From that moment on she started to be pleasant towards him and they actually formed a really good relationship. We all shared some lovely Christmases and every year a holiday together until her death in 2006. David and I had a wonderful marriage of 26 years until his death in 2016.

*Smileless "Virtually nothing was said about estrangement due to the influence of a third party and when it was, it was inline with parents being careful about criticising their AC's partner.
"*

I agree. By not making proper reference to that aspect of Estrangement cases, it plays into the "it must be the parents fault" narrative unfortunately. The introduction of a 3rd party to a family followed by Estrangement is not necessarily because the parent criticised the third party; that might be the case but it isn't a given and an article like this should acknowledge that to ensure complete balance.

I do think the article makes some interesting points to consider

@flappergirl so glad your relationship with your mum worked out, sometimes just being honest and up front is the best possible policy and whatever the reasons for your mums behaviour am sure she really appreciated the years she spent with you memories of which will stay with you for the rest of your life.

I agree Smileless, EACs who want a mature and balanced debate about what happened in their case will be put off by the immature and abusive EACs who come on her causing mischief. And it also makes it harder for EPs to come on here when they read such nasty posts. Both need a sympathetic and sensitive hearing, not to be subjected to the invective of posters whose aim is far from being either.

Just read this article and found it illuminating. A Psychologist who is quoted believes that there is a growing emphasis on individual happiness over collective bonds or old-fashioned filial duty. Family relationships, he thinks are starting to resemble romantic ones: if they’re not emotionally fulfilling, moving on is no longer inconceivable.

Of course there are multiple reasons why AC or indeed parents or siblings become estranged, but I think this article does a good job of describing some, from both sides. Increased my understanding anyway.

I do not spend enough time online to see comments that have been removed but looking through it seems every discussion is marred by talk about this one person who keeps coming back for a reaction and they are clearly getting many. I do not understand the need to speak badly about the forums those estranged from their parents visit, after looking myself these seem primarily full of hurting people with difficult family relationships too, doing their best to navigate their situation just like people here. We also have no idea if this one returning character is estranged from anyone. We simply know a person wants to cause upset, which could be anyone, potentially even a person who has a strong desire to make those who estranged their parents look bad or prevent them being admitted to this website. Either way it is a person who is obviously unwell and is being allowed to run amok here and fulfil their purpose which is not helping anyone, including themselves. We should be able to make the administrators aware and continue with our own contributions without spoiling so many interesting topics.

I think it's safe to assume that this poster is estranged Luminance. Maybe s/he regrets that decision or maybe they resent seeing posts from EP's that show they are getting on with their lives.

Perhaps they hoped that the one(s) they've estranged would spend the rest of their lives in pain and misery, unable to rebuild, move on and have a life without them.

Whatever the reasons for posting here with such anger and bitterness, clearly estrangement has not been the 'cure all' they hoped/expected it to be, if it were why are they still so angry?

It's feasible that it is a person who is angry and bitter, it is also feasible that it is a person seriously harmed by their childhood who needed help or a person seriously harmed by their own child and wishing to show an untrue comparison that proves some sort of point. Regardless perhaps creating an environment that does not react and challenge in overly general terms to those comments and instead responds with patience and kindness or even simple silence is what is needed to resolve the issue.