It's Scheiße, merde and mierda from me! 💩 💩 💩

Well, I know I’m biased, since I was good at languages and rubbish at physics, so if I’d taken that at (then) O level I’d have struggled to scrape a bare pass.

Again I’m probably biased, but I do think the sciences are generally harder than modern European languages. I’d make an exception for anyone having a go at Mandarin, though…

I can see why this looks odd. The boundary itself does not mean French is harder than English, but for a pupil choosing subjects, seeing nearly 90% required for a grade 9 does send a pretty clear message.

There is also a wider issue here. If a student look at those numbers he will thought that a language is a risky choice when they could take another subject with a lower grade 9 boundary. That looks counterproductive when schools are already trying to encourage more pupils to study languages.

Here you get extra credit for getting a foreign language qualification at VCE ( our version of A level ). It helps get you into uni, extra marks. One of my daughters got an almost perfect score because she had German as one of her subjects.

nanna8

Here you get extra credit for getting a foreign language qualification at VCE ( our version of A level ). It helps get you into uni, extra marks. One of my daughters got an almost perfect score because she had German as one of her subjects.

👍
That's interesting.

The explanation lies in the number of native language speakers who sit GCSE languages and unsurprisingly score highly thus skewing the spread of marks
This total spread of marks is then divided up into segments (I can’t remember the mathematical term, but I was never great at maths!) corresponding to the final grades, so it’s obvious if you get a number of candidates scoring 100% or close, it pushes the grade boundaries up.
I used to mark both German and French and to my amusement also taught a boy who got the highest GCSE German mark in the country that year. No credit to me- he was bright and bilingual He went to to do brilliantly at A level also, I suspect with one hand tied behind his back.
I absolutely agree with you and it made my blood boil as a MFL teacher.

All children in Wales have to take Welsh up to age 16. Therefore a GCSE. One of the most beautiful but complicated languages on earth. I have no idea what the pass rate is for that.

Entries for French specifically dropped by 5.5% nationally. Probably due to several reasons, but for me it reflects pupil anxiety about the workload, as well as perceived difficulty in securing high grades compared with to alternative subjects.

I think Welsh is beautiful too. I'm pleased I mainly heard and spoke this language until the age of four when I moved away.

I love Welsh, too . I wish I was younger and had a better memory because I would learn it. My great grandma was Welsh.🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 I suppose I wouldn’t ever be able to use it here, though, no one knows it.

When I was in the sixth form you had to have a pass at O level in a foreign language to get into uni.

Yes, I remember that. Everyone did French and Latin .

To my utter horror, neither of my grandchildren took a foreign language at GCSE. That doesn’t seem like an education to me. My granddaughter in particular is very good at French, so I don’t know why she hasn’t taken it.

MartavTaurus

76% gets you a grade 9 in English GCSE

78.5% gets you a grade 9 in Physics

But the grade boundary for French GCSE is 89.5%

88% for German

87.5% for Spanish

Where is the bloody incentive for the high ability students to choose modern foreign languages at GCSE?

(Excuse my French in the last paragraph!)

Exam grades are not the be-all and end-all of school.

The "incentive" for education, is to study something interesting/stimulating and acquire new knowledge and life-enhancing skills, enjoyed and valued for their own sake.

How about, learning a new language in order to communicate with strangers in another land? Or even stay home and read books /watch films in another language?

( Hopelessly oldfashioned, I know).

If only.
Unfortunately when entrance to Sixth Forms (schools or Sixth Form colleges) is dependent on good GCSE grades, and schools and teachers are ranked according to their exam results , not only is the perceived ‘difficulty’ of languages a disincentive to study them but also for schools to offer them.
I have seen schools drop from three languages to two or even one because they wanted to hedge their bets- believe me, sadly I know whereof I speak.

I agree MawsRosie, that the growth in language entries is looking more and more fragile. There's nothing to celebrate in these subjects with declining numbers year on year.
Learning any language is interesting and exciting, it shows self discipline and perseverance even though a pupil might never use it in their daily lives.
I know I'm biased, but I find it a great shame.
Some schools have now dropped all languages at GCSE.

westendgirl

When I was in the sixth form you had to have a pass at O level in a foreign language to get into uni.

For some reason I had to have O level Latin - I was studying economics.

nanna8

I love Welsh, too . I wish I was younger and had a better memory because I would learn it. My great grandma was Welsh.🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 I suppose I wouldn’t ever be able to use it here, though, no one knows it.

I'm learning Welsh with Duòlìngo. I like to think it's keeping my brain active! (Aged 78 3/4)

nanna8

Here you get extra credit for getting a foreign language qualification at VCE ( our version of A level ). It helps get you into uni, extra marks. One of my daughters got an almost perfect score because she had German as one of her subjects.

Same in Sweden where you get additional points for languages and higher levels of maths and science.

DD2 was technically above maximum grade average because of her language points.

So that's,

Australia
Sweden
New Zealand
Hungary
Ireland

Quite a wide mix.

Many years ago we went on our first holiday to France and the one word my very young children (son was just 4) picked up was merde. They repeated it all holiday!! As well as some obscure and strange phrase which they kept repeating.
It didn't help much when they took GCSEs although they both passed.

It’s a bit of a hobby horse with me, but why do we not start teaching foreign languages at a basic level earlier in this country? Young children are generally more receptive to it than when they reach secondary level and start to get hang ups (especially boys) about the conversational element and can’t wait to drop the subject as soon as possible!

We sort of do Greyduster, and it's a great idea. I'm not familiar with the state system, but I'm sure that under the National Curriculum in England, learning a foreign language is compulsory for pupils in Key Stage 2.

However, therein lies several problems. From observing my DGC, language lessons aren't regularly tacked onto the working week, but just delivered when the class teacher has a bit of spare time. And there's another problem. The class teacher is by no means a specialist in languages, and therefore shouldn't be expected to teach a foreign language. So, basically she teaches the children several mistakes which will have to be unlearned later. The children do appear to enjoy singing some French songs occasionally.

IIRC, it was Tony Blair who made it no longer obligatory to offer a modern language at GCSE. What possessed him I cannot imagine.

Yes, IIRC it was the Minister called Estelle Morris.

And what a bad knock on effect. It harmed the UK economy, particularly regarding trade with critical European partners like Germany who forged ahead leaving us behind as poor communicators in that language, along with others.