D'you Reckon That When Trump Dies.......

Maremia

The Democrats blew it Galaxy.
All that pretending that Biden was fit and well, until it was too late to mount a campaign for a winner.
But the irony.
'Sleepy Jo Biden'.
And now, all those photos of Trump falling asleep.

What I don’t understand is that the electorate saw through the Democrats protestations about Biden being fit enough to stand again. And felt that it was undemocratic for Harris to just replace him without a vote of any kind. But couldn’t see Trump for what he is .

Galaxy

I cant imagine why Trump has won twice, it is a mystery, what with the genius strategy of his opponents.

Before the second election there were a lot of British journalists travelling all over the US interviewing people.
From their comments it was obvious he was going to win.
I put a bet on him to win.
When you are so low through loosing your job, your home, your health insurance and a smiling snake oil salesman promises you he can fix this, what have you got to loose.
Then there’s the Bible Belt. Extremely right wing. They love him.

Good points Petra, I often feel we make the mistake of feeling because we share a language, that makes us similar people. We are Europeans, very different culture and customs to the Americans. The civil war is over of course, but this country remains divided in significant ways,
Guns and snake salesmen are as prevalent now as in the mid 19th century, attitudes to white supremacy similarly

Iam64

Good points Petra, I often feel we make the mistake of feeling because we share a language, that makes us similar people. We are Europeans, very different culture and customs to the Americans. The civil war is over of course, but this country remains divided in significant ways,
Guns and snake salesmen are as prevalent now as in the mid 19th century, attitudes to white supremacy similarly

I’m not so sure we are so “dissimilar”.

We have disenchanted citizens who feel hopeless and ignored, we too have an extremely good snake oil salesman, who is well educator and great at promises and singling out minority groups and he has a big following.

Galaxy

No I think he partly won it because the 'opponents' decided that calling those who voted for him names was a genius solution.

... butting in here...

Trump indulges in 'grievance' politics - America is being 'put upon' by the rest of the world... which might be true in some instances. But overall, not so much.

It's been said many times that the Americans don't ever see themselves as an exploited working class, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires... maybe because of the belief in the 'American Dream', I don't know...

But if that 'temporary' embarrassment becomes rather permanent, Trump's grievances against those nations and peoples he thinks are taking advantage of the USA, then I'd imagine the appeal is overwhelming. After all, it couldn't possibly be that their relative or real poverty is caused by the brutal Capitalistic greed of people like Trumpo or Musk or the greedy Corporate conglomerates, could it?

Well that's slightly complicated though in that capitalism is frequently very good at raising people out of poverty.
Again all this implies that Trump voters are manipulated souls in one form or other. They are no more that than Democrat voters in fact some of them will have been previous Democrats.

Are American voters lost to morality, ethics and humanity? They must be if they voted for that man Trump.

Galaxy

Well that's slightly complicated though in that capitalism is frequently very good at raising people out of poverty.
Again all this implies that Trump voters are manipulated souls in one form or other. They are no more that than Democrat voters in fact some of them will have been previous Democrats.

Well that's slightly complicated though in that capitalism is frequently very good at raising people out of poverty.

Yes, we know that - it's the 'engine for growth' as they say... which lifts people out of poverty, especially extreme poverty, BUT 'unregulated' Capitalism also suppresses living standards for millions of others.

Everyone knows that when labour is the cost which-must-be-minimised - we get what we've got... wage stagnation unable to meet living costs.

Or - as Google AI succinctly puts it when I asked it/them to phrase it in a way which wasn't going to bore the pants off people, "A system can be incredibly efficient at generating wealth while simultaneously being devastatingly inefficient at distributing it. Acknowledging both isn't a contradiction; it’s economic reality.

Do you think there's no manipulation of voters by Trumpo? When he's doing his carnival-act, firing up the crowd with rhetoric he knows they love to hear? If there's one thing he has mastered, it's that - he knows his audience better than they know themselves. He doesn't woo them with facts, figures, or statistics - he does it with emotion. That's manipulation.

I'm not suggesting all his voters are easily manipulated, not at all - I think there's probably many who have his measure, but it's in their interests to go along with the jamboree - they're smart enough to know how and when they will benefit from doing so.

Cossy

Iam64

Good points Petra, I often feel we make the mistake of feeling because we share a language, that makes us similar people. We are Europeans, very different culture and customs to the Americans. The civil war is over of course, but this country remains divided in significant ways,
Guns and snake salesmen are as prevalent now as in the mid 19th century, attitudes to white supremacy similarly

I’m not so sure we are so “dissimilar”.

We have disenchanted citizens who feel hopeless and ignored, we too have an extremely good snake oil salesman, who is well educator and great at promises and singling out minority groups and he has a big following.

Yes the influence of Trump is unsettling. Yet our Family history says one of our maternal grans brothers marched with Mosley’s blackshirts in the 30’s as they were given boots

There will always be extremists but generalising, neither extreme has yet held power in the uk. The support for Farage and con seems to be falling, ditto for Zack Polanski

Will there be as many 'Latinos for Trump' this time I wonder?

Iam64

You, Cossy and Petra are having an interesting debate... I'm following it.

Good to hear Dickens - also you’re debating with us

Do you think there is no manipulation of democrat voters or in this country of the left voters. It is apparent in every slogan chanted, in every new movement followed ( then dropped).
Many would think it extreme to say men can get pregnant, that whiteness is bad, etc etc. I cant speak for trump voters but my guess is they may hold similar confusion/ contempt for the other side.

Galaxy

Do you think there is no manipulation of democrat voters or in this country of the left voters. It is apparent in every slogan chanted, in every new movement followed ( then dropped).
Many would think it extreme to say men can get pregnant, that whiteness is bad, etc etc. I cant speak for trump voters but my guess is they may hold similar confusion/ contempt for the other side.

I'm not talking about Right or Left - and I'm not attacking Right-wing voters either, I'm specifically referring to Trump who is almost a cult-leader.

JamesandJon33

There will be a cry of Hallelujah around the world

As someone put it recently, when Trump dies, the sounds of rejoicing will be heard on the moons of Jupiter.

Not in the USA, though. I think the Bible Belt still love him. Split down the middle as many countries are just now.

What a horrid thread.

Trump is a horrid man - to put it mildly

It is a horrid thread, I agree. There are a lot of horrid politicians around but I wouldn’t wish any of them dead.

Yet it is interesting to see how many continue to contribute to keeping it afloat.

capitalism is often very good at raising people out of poverty
More often than not only when there’s more in it for them.

The world needs more of the likes of Richard Rowntree than the Jeff Bezos and Elon Musks.

I’m literally attacking no one, not on here, not in real life.

The facts are so simple, as with many politicians Trump has exploited the vulnerable in his own country, he’s let his countrymen down.

But he’s gone so much further, his actions have affected many other countries, his words and actions have affected and caused wars, people in communities, people on a personal level, he’s responsible for people dying in his own country, and in other countries. He’s responsible for day to day poverty and health-care poverty for his fellow Americans.

He is a liar, a cheat, he’s deluded, deranged and dangerous.

He’s a complete disaster as a human, as a man and as a “leader”.

I don’t wish dead but I certainly won’t be sorry when he is.

His appalling legacy will live on and on.

Oooops forgot in my opinion

nanna8

Not in the USA, though. I think the Bible Belt still love him. Split down the middle as many countries are just now.

There will be many many Americans very pleased to see the back of him.

Including some who voted for him in the past, but now find that their family lives have been ruined, by ICE deportations, or their soya bean companies bancrupted by his China tariffs, or their holiday resorts ruined because of Candian boycotts.