What is a lesbian?

I'm absolutely delighted if the law is being properly applied.

I don't think the "social media storm" is half as damaging given the support of the mainstream media, which is becoming increasingly transphobic.

I think we are lucky in that we have women in key positions who know and understand the law.
It's been a shock to some I think. Just keep ploughing on using the law, the rest is white noise to me.

Glorianny

I'm absolutely delighted if the law is being properly applied.

I don't think the "social media storm" is half as damaging given the support of the mainstream media, which is becoming increasingly transphobic.

Is the mainstream media becoming transphobic? They still report on male sex offenders as "she" once they decide they are transgender. If you consider that supporting women's rights is transphobic then surely supporting transrights is womanphobic, and there is a conflict, something the trans lobby has always vehemently denied.

In what way 'transphobic'? As I see it, the so-called 'MSM' are not so much becoming transphobic as resisting the demands of the trans lobby to automatically cast transpeople as 'the most marginalised group in society'. Actually, I haven't heard that phrase for a while, now I think about it - has it been dropped from the playbook?

The NUJ guidelines on trans rights are focussed on keeping within the law, (which is the point of them), and do not say that no negative stories about transpeople can be printed/broadcast. They do, however, make it clear that gratuitous mention of trans status, or the use of demeaning terms and punctuation (eg 'she' instead of she) are against the guidelines.

They are available here if you are not familiar with them. What is transphobic there?

Glorianny wrote
Anyone who thinks that those men now pretending to care about women's spaces are actually supportive of women is being naive. Some of the most outspoken about transwomen treat real women terribly and will continue to do so.

That may be true.

Why then should we accept absolutely any male as a woman if he chooses to make a declaration of being trans?
Why are those males any more likely to be trustworthy than those who are not trans?

Sorry Rosie. I was digging out the NUJ guidelines for my link half way through posting and missed the fact that you were asking the same question.

Good question, FN. It's the is my enemy's enemy my friend?' question, isn't it?

Great news that this event will be happening and the organiser has been vindicated.

Oops, Glorianny, did you mean to make the transphobic comment that transwomen are not real women?

Excellent news Smileless

ALL the TW and TRA who hit the headlines are femalephobic, regardless of whether the females have lied and cheated.

Glorianny wrote
Anyone who thinks that those men now pretending to care about women's spaces are actually supportive of women is being naive.
I wondered how long that word would take to reappear.

Now G appears to think she/he is speaking for all males-saying they are pretending to care.
My DH and the other males in my family, care. There’s no pretence about it.

Some of the most outspoken about transwomen treat real women terribly and will continue to do so. evidence for that statement please

And we’re back to men treating women terribly. That occurs. It’s bad and no one would deny it.
But their actions should not be conflated with those males who treat real women badly and then declare they are TW (either before or after they are caught). They are a new subspecies of male, supported by other TW, TRA and sadly, as we see, by real women.

FarNorth

Oops, Glorianny, did you mean to make the transphobic comment that transwomen are not real women?

Perhaps I should have put inverted commas around the real Far North but I tend to address posters as politely as I can and they find so many terms unacceptable.
Or perhaps the transphobic language is beginning to rub off on me. I'm not immune to pressure.

Glorianny

Mollygo

Astute observation Elegran.
^After all, if they had planned to transition legally from human men to human women at a time when women did not have the vote, they would voted first to retain that right for themselves.^

Just a small comment that all men did not have the vote until 1918, when some women were given it as well.
The concept that all men have always had privilege is completely wrong. The restrictions were complicated, but basically working class men who did not rent or own property did not have the vote.

Some men had no vote, because they didn't own or rent property. No women at all had the vote, because they were women

Glorianny

FarNorth

Oops, Glorianny, did you mean to make the transphobic comment that transwomen are not real women?

Perhaps I should have put inverted commas around the real Far North but I tend to address posters as politely as I can and they find so many terms unacceptable.
Or perhaps the transphobic language is beginning to rub off on me. I'm not immune to pressure.

Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender.

So it is 'some posters' who are to blame for what you post, now?

To what transphobic language do you refer, incidentally? It is very difficult to respond when you uses such vague terms. Do you have an example, please?

I've started a new thread about this 10 min video.
The host is clearly as infuriated as I am.

youtu.be/SHvN2ZSM1tM?si=nNvzRkSzm4RnH0mw

https://signal-corridor.live/uploads/talk/202309/medium-429762-fos6df6aiamp0ku.jpeg%3C/span%3E https://signal-corridor.live/uploads/talk/202309/medium-907817-foxi6ulxwau-cbc.jpeg%3C/span%3E

Or perhaps the transphobic language is beginning to rub off on me.

I don't think the reality-denying language is rubbing off on me Glorianny.
I find it quite easy to write about women/females and men/males as what they are, and to avoid using wrong-sex pronouns.

It seems much more likely that you do really know who are women and who are men.

FarNorth

Glorianny wrote
Anyone who thinks that those men now pretending to care about women's spaces are actually supportive of women is being naive. Some of the most outspoken about transwomen treat real women terribly and will continue to do so.

That may be true.

Why then should we accept absolutely any male as a woman if he chooses to make a declaration of being trans?
Why are those males any more likely to be trustworthy than those who are not trans?

.

Btw Glorianny you ignored my questions.
What is your reasoning on them?

Difficult questions are never answered, FN. It would be so much simpler if biological realists were told why a belief that sex is immutable is wrong. All we ever hear is 'just because', or 'it is a feeling'.

A couple of very short videos here, about 1.5 mins each, with some useful info -

twitter.com/mslisterssis/status/1666749494552322048?t=MVhH2KxZ5YMqKUuCnUw5Hw&s=19

twitter.com/mslisterssis/status/1696121208646107474?t=hUw_hotX1679NBeRWLVmqQ&s=19

It seems the pub must have got proper legal advice letting them know they were in the wrong, so they did the right thing and court action didn't have to go ahead.

FarNorth-fantastic news.
How long before the male and TRA next move on their you can’t stop me agenda.

Great response, thanks for sharing FarNorth.

Anyone who thinks that those men now pretending to care about women's spaces are actually supportive of women is being naive. Some of the most outspoken about transwomen treat real women terribly and will continue to do so.

And some men do care Glorianny.

Just like not all TW are aggressive loudmouths who want to "punch a TERF in the "f***ing face" (Baker) - not all men are brutal misogynists, either.

... and I know my 52 year-old son isn't because he was raised by me in an environment that treats men and women as equals. And I'm sure there are many such sons...

Dickens

And some men do care, Glorianny.

Just like not all TW are aggressive loudmouths who want to "punch a TERF in the "f***ing face" (Baker) - not all men are brutal misogynists, either.

So true, but I know Glorianny will tell us that we can’t tell just by looking , who are the men who do care, along with the TW who have been living and want to live in peace.
But by their deeds we will know them.

I don't know why it is considered naive to think that some men are supportive of women's rights, and believe that women and girls should have privacy and dignity in female spaces.

I like men in general - I just don't want them sharing changing rooms with teenage girls or refuges with traumatised women (etc, etc). I have male friends, a husband and a son, and none of them want to impose themselves into places where women don't want them to be. They respect our right to be in single sex spaces, and also our right to decide what we want and not have it overruled by males as a matter of course.

Doodledog it always comes back to that point. No matter how nice or harmless males are, the ones who respect our rights, don’t lie, don’t cheat and don’t
impose themselves into places where women don't want them to be are the only males who deserve my respect.
Unfortunately, the only ones we hear about are the cheats, liars and violent ones who want our rights to be overruled by males as a matter of course or they’ll shriek transphobia.