What is a lesbian?

That’s true Smiles, we reach a point of believing it can’t get worse, then it does

Yes thank goodness Dickens because despite being a minority they're doing a lot of damage and have the potential to create a lot more.

Smileless2012

Crimes of a sexual nature are rarely about sex, but as you say Doodledog they're about power and as we say time and time again on these threads, this is about a group of men wanting to eradicate women's rights and increase their power of us.

Conflating sex and gender is at the heart of this and I know that 'if only's' are pointless but I can't help but think that if only this had been stopped the moment it started, we wouldn't be in this ridiculous situation now.

Who thought we'd ever be at a stage where women had to defend their right not to have sex with a man-who-declares-himself-a-woman - and she a phobic /fetishist for not being attracted to him?

Thank goodness these TWAs are a minority... very vocal, but still a minority.

Crimes of a sexual nature are rarely about sex, but as you say Doodledog they're about power and as we say time and time again on these threads, this is about a group of men wanting to eradicate women's rights and increase their power of us.

Conflating sex and gender is at the heart of this and I know that 'if only's' are pointless but I can't help but think that if only this had been stopped the moment it started, we wouldn't be in this ridiculous situation now.

It does, Elegran. It really showcases the misogyny that underpins the trans agenda.

The logic seems to be - 'You are a lesbian, so are attracted to women. I think I am a woman, so you must be attracted to me. You aren't? You don't like stubble and a visible erection? Oh, that must mean that you are a transphobe.' It's not a million miles from straight men saying that a woman who doesn't fancy him must be a lesbian, or that lesbians are just women who need 'a good seeing to'.

Actual transwomen are victims of this too, as it gives lie to the fact that they just want to get on with their lives. It's a mess, and unless politicians grasp the nettle and stop with the 'most marginalised' nonsense, it is not going to get better.

It does throw light on what the priorities are in some (not all) transitions (or rather, in this case, some claims to have transitioned.)

Are they suggesting that a lesbian, or anyone else for that matter, will have sex with anyone whose body fits the required shape? Is there no place for choosing to have sex with someone because you actually like them and are physically attracted to them personally too? There seems to be no choice allowed in any way.

That demand is about "me-rights" to be what they want and to hell with anyone else's rights to be what they want.

Doodledog

It's not about sex, is it? It's about power, and ensuring that women have nothing for ourselves alone. Trans ideology is about preventing women from doing anything without men - changing, using the loo, meeting at the WI etc etc. Lesbians are the ultimate insult to misogynists - they don't even need men as sexual partners, so they come in for real hatred, and are neutralised by the idea that there is no such thing as homosexuality - it should be 'reframed' as 'same gender attraction'. As they have shifted the meaning of 'gender' to mean 'the sex that you want to be' that attraction includes the 'transwomen' who are basically straight men in dresses.

Lesbians are the ultimate insult to misogynists - they don't even need men as sexual partners, so they come in for real hatred

That's about the size of it!

Lesbians have been accused by some transwomen as having a "vagina fetish" !

Just how far will these men-in-dresses activists go in denying logic... unless a lesbian states otherwise, she just doesn't fancy 'girl' dick - blithering idiots - it's intrinsic, inherent, instinctive... absolutely nothing to do with 'fetishism'. A lesbian is not attracted to the male anatomy within or without a dress - that's why she's a lesbian! <<<sigh>>>

What they are actually saying is, 'I've decided I'm a woman, and you've got to be attracted to me on that basis - if you are not, you're transphobic... and, now, a 'fetishist'... utterly bonkers!

It's not about sex, is it? It's about power, and ensuring that women have nothing for ourselves alone. Trans ideology is about preventing women from doing anything without men - changing, using the loo, meeting at the WI etc etc. Lesbians are the ultimate insult to misogynists - they don't even need men as sexual partners, so they come in for real hatred, and are neutralised by the idea that there is no such thing as homosexuality - it should be 'reframed' as 'same gender attraction'. As they have shifted the meaning of 'gender' to mean 'the sex that you want to be' that attraction includes the 'transwomen' who are basically straight men in dresses.

I find it very ironic that some (not all) male-bodied trans people, who have the right to make their own choice of gender, can't understand that lesbians have the right to make their own choice of who they have sex with. Surely what is sauce for the gander (including a gander who self-identifies as a goose) is sauce for the goose?

FarNorth

Latest from Jenny, whose speed dating for lesbians has now been reinstated -

"You've made your point, don’t you think it’s wise to stop now?” No, and this is why. At the end of Let Women Speak on Sunday, I had a chat with a lovely lady. She has given me permission to share her and her daughter's story. This exemplifies precisely why we must continue to speak out. Don’t ever let silence take hold. I have no doubt that this mother's love for her child played a significant role in her decision to desist. Good job to this mum.

In her own words:

“Your story helped peak my daughter as she realised how homophobic the ideology is. She was outraged that TiMs would try to muscle in to lesbian events. It’s helped her desist.

My daughter had no gender distress until 16. She’s highly intelligent, autistic with some OCD, sensory issues. She is really into anime, has two friends who identify as trans and spent a lot of time online due to covid. She became depressed and announced she was non-binary, they/them and changed her name at school.

We didn’t affirm her identity but avoided pronouns and called her by a long standing family nickname. I would gently drop into conversation some of the obvious logical inconsistencies of gender ideology (eg rapists in prisons or men in women’s sport)

She considered herself trans but clearly was in the dark about many aspects. She had heard that the LGB Alliance was really transphobic. I told her about your story and she was completely outraged! She had no idea that lesbians were being hassled and couldn’t believe that your event was cancelled.

I explained that Stonewall changed the definition of homosexual to mean same gender attraction and that lesbians were “sexual racists.” Your story massively peaked her. She’s 18 now and is desisting. She’s using her birth name and isn’t bothered by she/her pronouns. She’s much happier and more comfortable in her skin.

She now sees that the TRAs are “homophobic and misogynistic!” Thank you for publicly sharing your story. For being brave and standing up for what is right. You are helping more people than you know.

I recently asked her “What’s the difference between black face and woman face?” And she was unable to answer. The penny is starting to drop. She remains very sympathetic (as am I) to the genuinely gender dysphoric who want to live quietly and respect women’s boundaries. But your story was so powerful in lifting the scales from her eyes.

I was so delighted to meet you so I could thank you to your face! Your story is not just about giving some lesbians in London the opportunity to meet without men. Your story will help so many people realise that the T is simply homophobic and especially damaging for lesbians.”

^I loved this story, thank you ‘D.O’ for sharing it. This is why we need to keep talking. When we do, we make a dent and weaken the influence of those who are trying so hard to silence us.^

I explained that Stonewall changed the definition of homosexual to mean same gender attraction and that lesbians were “sexual racists.”

I find this absolutely 'mind-boggling[.

At its very core, sexual attraction towards another is something innate that you either feel - or you don't.

You cannot dictate who someone should be attracted to. If a lesbian is not attracted by the anatomy of a male, and I assume that is the defining feature of lesbianism - then it doesn't matter a fig if that male wears women's clothes and identifies as a woman... if the lesbian doesn't 'fancy' a TW with a penis - then she doesn't, and she shouldn't have to explain it, justify it, or face stupid accusations of "sexual racism".

Whatever influences a lesbian in her choice - it doesn't matter. It's personal and private and no-one else's business.

It seems as if the TW activists - and Stonewall - feel they have the right to control people's emotions and sexual choices. They should butt the heck out of it and keep their noses out of people's private lives.

A man can identify how he pleases - but he doesn't have the right to demand that lesbians have a relationship with him.

Utterly absurd, it defies logic and reason.

Latest from Jenny, whose speed dating for lesbians has now been reinstated -

"You've made your point, don’t you think it’s wise to stop now?” No, and this is why. At the end of Let Women Speak on Sunday, I had a chat with a lovely lady. She has given me permission to share her and her daughter's story. This exemplifies precisely why we must continue to speak out. Don’t ever let silence take hold. I have no doubt that this mother's love for her child played a significant role in her decision to desist. Good job to this mum.

In her own words:

“Your story helped peak my daughter as she realised how homophobic the ideology is. She was outraged that TiMs would try to muscle in to lesbian events. It’s helped her desist.

My daughter had no gender distress until 16. She’s highly intelligent, autistic with some OCD, sensory issues. She is really into anime, has two friends who identify as trans and spent a lot of time online due to covid. She became depressed and announced she was non-binary, they/them and changed her name at school.

We didn’t affirm her identity but avoided pronouns and called her by a long standing family nickname. I would gently drop into conversation some of the obvious logical inconsistencies of gender ideology (eg rapists in prisons or men in women’s sport)

She considered herself trans but clearly was in the dark about many aspects. She had heard that the LGB Alliance was really transphobic. I told her about your story and she was completely outraged! She had no idea that lesbians were being hassled and couldn’t believe that your event was cancelled.

I explained that Stonewall changed the definition of homosexual to mean same gender attraction and that lesbians were “sexual racists.” Your story massively peaked her. She’s 18 now and is desisting. She’s using her birth name and isn’t bothered by she/her pronouns. She’s much happier and more comfortable in her skin.

She now sees that the TRAs are “homophobic and misogynistic!” Thank you for publicly sharing your story. For being brave and standing up for what is right. You are helping more people than you know.

I recently asked her “What’s the difference between black face and woman face?” And she was unable to answer. The penny is starting to drop. She remains very sympathetic (as am I) to the genuinely gender dysphoric who want to live quietly and respect women’s boundaries. But your story was so powerful in lifting the scales from her eyes.

I was so delighted to meet you so I could thank you to your face! Your story is not just about giving some lesbians in London the opportunity to meet without men. Your story will help so many people realise that the T is simply homophobic and especially damaging for lesbians.”

I loved this story, thank you ‘D.O’ for sharing it. This is why we need to keep talking. When we do, we make a dent and weaken the influence of those who are trying so hard to silence us.

I agree Mollygo they are "the real vulnerable minority" and suffering because of TRA's and those who support them.

Nannashirlz
But I do feel for the gay ppl with men claiming to be women and women claiming to be men and expecting them to go along with it

Yes and amazingly some normally rational people promote the idea that if you can’t tell if they’re male or not, it’s OK for trans to lie by word or action.

I did see that those men were kicking off because the lesbians were refusing to date them claiming that they were women 🤣 just because a man puts on a dress doesn’t make them a woman. But I do feel for the gay ppl with men claiming to be women and women claiming to be men and expecting them to go along with it and dating them like they shouldn’t see that they body’s don’t look similar. Something definitely happened to ppl in lockdown

Mollygo

Smileless2012
'marginalised and vulnerable minority' yeah right.
The real vulnerable minority are those lesbians, and gays, and non confrontational trans who are suffering because of the actions of the strident and violent trans and TRA.
The increasingly vulnerable majority are women (AHF) who also suffer from the strident and violent TRA and their femalephobic actions and demands.

'marginalised and vulnerable minority' yeah right.

Yes, the messages of refusal to allow meetings on various premises show how people are in fear of the supposedly marginalised and vulnerable minority. It’s difficult to understand how anyone can still see the trans lobby as such, isn’t it? It’s a giant PR con trick.

Also on that thread, someone apparently told Quakers that women having a sexual assault survivors' group would be likely to physically attack any trans people who were in the building at the same time.

There's no way that the person saying that could genuinely believe it.

Fortunately, after initially refusing, Quakers did meet with Sarah and agreed to give it further thought.

LGB Alliance are going to help her with finding a suitable venue.
Some posters suggested the chain that cancelled the lesbian dating night, as they have clearly had legal advice which caused them to backtrack.
Let's hope LGB Alliance can get the message to other venues, that they are acting illegally.

FarNorth

Wow, from the MN thread linked by Doodledog.
If you are 'on the trans-masculine spectrum', i.e. female & 'trans', an all-female group for you is fine.
But not for female survivors of sexual assault and rape.

FarNorth it couldn't be more blatant could it? You can have a female only group as long as those females are trans. That was a point Sarah raised initially, that they had trans only groups but female rape or sex attack victims weren't worthy of such consideration.
When she attempts with others to form her own group the bullies are so hateful they intimidate venues into refusing the booking. Why are they so afraid of women having a group just for women? It's like the Let Women Speak meetings. You don't have to agree with every woman that speaks but why the noisy, violent attempts to silence them? Are they so terrified people will hear reasoned arguments for women and children's safety, dignity and autonomy? And those brave men, masked and dressed like second class ninjas so as not to be recognised, who enjoy a bit of misogynistic violence disguised as inclusive kindness.......

Yes, it's gone beyond parody now. How anyone can deny that this is about erasing women is beyond me.

Wow, from the MN thread linked by Doodledog.
If you are 'on the trans-masculine spectrum', i.e. female & 'trans', an all-female group for you is fine.
But not for female survivors of sexual assault and rape.

Yes FarNorth I feel so sad for my friend in her 80s who feels her words/letters/pleas are being totally ignored.

The situation that the WI accepts transwomen who have not completely transitioned is so worrying and they have the audacity to say a partially transitioned man ‘is a woman’.

We are forbidden from showing other members/or anyone the content of the letters from the NFWI.

Sadly I feel it is the gradual death of the Women’s Institute.

The Women’s Institute Declaration group are trying hard to get a Moratorium organised whereby the transwomen who are already in the WI stay and then the ALL the members would have a vote (being democratic, but you wouldn’t know it) on whether to continue with this situation or return to female only.

I feel we are fighting a losing battle.

You are right, of course, and given what we know now is happening (men deliberately disrupting women's groups to break them up) I would absolutely argue that no transwomen be allowed. And of course they do magically move into leadership roles, as men always do in female-dominated spheres.

I do, however, feel sorry for the tiny number of men who have historically wanted to be women - people like the late April Ashley, or the fictional Hayley Cropper - who might have wanted to join the WI (not attend rape support groups) and who will lose out if all women's groups become single sex. I am not saying that their rights should trump those of women, just that I think they are victims of the trans lobby's aggression and the proliferation of self-identifying transwomen too.

Anyone who hasn't read the MN thread - there is a post about men joining support groups for parents of stillborn and miscarried babies and making women listen to how sad it is that they are unable to get pregnant and carry babies because they have male bodies.

Others are claiming that they suffer from endometriosis, so join support groups for that, and listen in to women talking about their flooding periods etc. Now why might that be, I wonder? Could it possibly have any connection to the transwomen sniffing sanitary bins in the Ladies'?

There really seems to be nothing that these people won't do to exercise power over women, satisfy their fetishes and prevent us from doing anything without men.