What am I supposed to do?

Chinesecrested "smokes in the house (against house rules, although I find myself turning a blind eye, not being one for confrontation". A minor point here, I trust your insurance doesn't have a non-smoking clause - would be terrible if your insurance was invalidated in the case of fire. I see that other posters covered any other points that I would have made.

He doesn't pay rent because he has no spare money, rent isn't what you do with spare money, beer is what you spend money on after everything else has been paid. Rent food diesel etc. I'm sorry to say this but you are being a ridiculous person and a terrible mother, not only allowing this to happen buy actively encouraging it. He is showing you no respect by smoking at home when you have told him not to and keeping (lending him money) that is not paid back is not lending it's giving it's also called enabling. You have to take charge of this situation now.'you are after all the parent

So, ChineseCrested, if I understand your post correctly...

a, Your son smokes in the house against house rules. Response: You look the other way to avoid a
confrontation!

b. He has no money to go to work because he drinks too much
Response: You don't think it's a serious problem),

c. You let him borrow your money knowing you will never get it back
Response: Saying NO to him makes you feel guilty so you lend him the money anyway.

*d. He squanders his paycheck on beer but keeps the £20 fuel money you 'lent' him.
Response: He decides not to go to work and you don't say anything?

e. He lies to his employer by calling in sick.
No reponse. (So, I'm guessing you're OK with that too)

What could possibly go wrong here?

My parents were dismissive of my brother’s drink problem and when his wife left him for it, they just didn’t believe it. He had lots of friends and little money, found responsibility difficult and had such loving parents who did everything for him, including burying him just before his 40th birthday. All those lovely friends attended his funeral but that is little consolation now. I think tough love with support might have been a better route. Sometimes good parenting is about taking the tougher path rather than the one with least resistance. Maybe you could do with some assertiveness courses so you can help him? What does your other child think; often siblings are much better at seeing problems than parents.

Your enabling him to stay stuck. He isn't going to change when you allow him to stay in your home and behave like this. I have been there and done it. I had to learn the hard way the only person you can change is you. The itinerary is yours. We can't change anyone. Only ourselves. He won't like it and will go for all the buttons he can push if you decide it's time to tell him to get his own place, give him a deadline etc. He is used to you giving in to him. Maybe you need to get some impute for you to help you with this

Oh and has others have said your in denial about him having an alcohol problem. Have a look at this website link. It's a support network for those who have someone around there lives where drink is an issue. Step off the merry go round of denial and check it out please

www.al-anonuk.org.uk/

You describe a drunken, disrespectful, self serving parasite.
Like others I strongly suspect that you secretly take pleasure in your son being so dependent on you, though in my opinion he is taking the proverbial.
I doubt very much if you will take any advice offered by others in the same situation.

Klondykate, like you I find many posters on here harsh with their views and quick to condemn, so if you manage to find a site which would be more suited to my genteel disposition, please let me know.

Some people have physical handicaps, and other people accept that they need help and don't generally assume that the disability is voluntary and evidence of fecklessness. Some people have chronic illnesses such as fibromyalgia - they sometimes get shorter shrift because many other people assume they're malingering. Some people have mental health issues. Public opinion now recognises that these are 'real' illnesses, just like physical ones, but many people still seem to be labelled as scroungers. And some people can't cope well with the practical aspects of managing their lives. My elder son, now 37, has a a lot in common with the OP's, and over the years I've been given all the same advice as many people have offered to her. My son is adopted, and was diagnosed with ADHD as a child, but before any specific help was available. It has been painful to watch him continually fall into the same traps because of a neurological inability to check impulsive behaviour. And even more painful to experience again and again the lack of understanding by anyone who does not have at least some personal experience of attempting to deal with this developmental disorder. I'm pleased to say, that although he's been what seems like the world's slowest late developer, our son has gradually taken on board and learnt from the consequences of his actions (we're still working on his apparent inability to remember to put money aside for direct debits BEFORE they're due, but we're getting there. He enjoys his work as an HGV driver, but it's not well paid, and he and his wife have no money for extras, so this is a hard lesson for him to learn, particularly as he's a very generous person (just as he was when he was seven and came home with a bar of Galaxy for me and none of the change I'd asked him to give me). But I know that if we'd given up on him he would never have made it through to where he is now - we have given him a non-judgmental but not uncritical safe haven, just as we would have done to any young person with a disability. So, Chinesecrested, I do understand the need to offload sometimes, even if you aren't really asking for advice, and with you and your family well.

When you have children you love them unconditionally but sadly I am afraid that often it does not mean that you actually like them and how they turn out. Sometimes you have to be a toughie if you want them to live up to their full potential. It does not seem that your elder son is managing very well at present. It would seem there are no absolutes in his life and he clearly thinks that he has no boundaries and no responsibilities. This is where the parents come in as it is part of their responsibility to put in place the absolutes.

I wonder if you have taken into account his brother's feelings regarding all of this. I fear that you may be storing up problems for the future. When you are no longer here to keep the peace the family left behind may well be totally fractured. Your younger son may well take a very strong position to protect his own little family and your older son may well be left out in the cold. Who knows? You have no idea what will happen and this is why you need to prepare your 'man child' to be self sufficient. You may not know but estrangement is a very unhappy scenario and could be an unintended outcome when the family dynamics are in a mess. Estrangement can happen even when there is only a perceived favouring of one sibling over another but you know that is not the case here.

Clearly you do know that as a mum you actually need to sort all this out. Nobody likes to be a kill joy but there doesn't seem to be much joy for any of you in the situation as it is at present. It needs to change but as you are posting on here then you clearly already know this.

My mother had my sister living at home, just the same as you. She decided enough was enough and told my sister that in future all bills, council tax, phone etc would be divided 3 ways as 3 people lived in the house. Within 6 weeks she had moved out, too expensive to live at home. And as for no no smoking you need to tighten up on it and really enforce it as it is bad for your health. My husband use to take the packet of cigarettes if he caught my daughter smoking inside and throw them as far as he could out of the back door! You need to toughen up.

The first thing I would do is stop him smoking in the house. Why should you have to passive smoke because be is selfish? He should stand outside if he wants to smoke. He should not even be buying cigarettes if he does not contribute to household expenditure. You really need to make a start on making him change his ways. It is not fair on his brother. Tough love needed.

Thanks for your comments everyone. Just to clear up a few points, I don't think that ds2 has a problem, as he's doing well and I'm proud of him. I do loads of babysitting for his two small children, and I paid for £1200 for his car repairs recently as he needs his car for work an hour's drive away. He can't complain really. The Manchild's drink consists of a 4 pack of beer every day - not a serious problem (is it?). Not being a drinker maybe I can't judge (how much in cash? £5 per day? I don't know...) Our house has an annexe where ds's good mate lives (and pays rent!) so he spends most of his time there and doesn't get under our feet too much. We aren't rich by any means, but we're lucky enough to be ok. The real issue is I'm worried for his future, and would like to think he can take responsibility and look after himself - rent, council tax, utilities, fuel, food and leisure - in that order! It's not difficult; he just doesn't seem to think it's important. Maybe we'll just have to move out of the area!

CC, a four pack a day is eight units a day. Fifty six units a week. Plus anything else he might drink when he is out with friends etc.

NHS recommendation is for men not to drink more than 14 units a week. He's drinking more than four times that amount.

Calling in sick when you are self employed means you are letting a client down which is irresponsible and not the way to get a good business reputation and therefore ability to pay your way. This isn't love you are still pretending he is a "child" and enabling him to continue this behaviour. Imy sorry if this founds hard but you are the person at fault in this situation. I have 2 kids one at 27 is running his own business has bought a house and has child and wife. My youngest is still at home (early 20s) working, clothes and feeds them self runs a car and pays rent. We think they are a tad mad spending so much on clothes etc but as long as bills paid etc their spare cash is theirs and they save. My jobrother ad a parent imo is to give my kids the wherewithal to grow up, leave the nest and be self sufficient ADULTS bit perhaps I'm wrong

Why don't you do as Barmeyoldbat's mum did and divide all the bill's and get him to share in paying the expenses? You could always save it if you don't want the money and when he moves out you could divide it between your two sons as a gift. At least that way it will help you feel better about it, help your elder son to learn about paying his way and help the younger son to feel he is also benefiting.
If you care about elder son's health stop him drinking such a huge amount! If you don't he will need you to look after him permanently!

When you are calling in sick when you are self employed, who are you calling in sick to?
I’m sorry, but this 40 year old needs to take responsibility for his own life and stop filching off his elderly parents.
He has lived an independent life in the past, as the OP says, having being married, so if he could do it once, he can do it again.
However, I’m not totally convinced that the OP wants her son to live an independent life. I’m wondering who is the most needy here?
If you really want the best for him, OP, then some tough love is long overdue, from you and your partner. Take note of what has already been advised to you on this thread.

I’ve just read your latest post. Are you for real? You don’t think drinking 4 beers a day is a problem? (How much it costs per day is a secondary problem to its effect on his health).

You don’t think paying his car bill of £1200 is a problem?

You do loads of babysitting for him? How convenient for him!! (What does the children’s mother think about this - I suppose you are doing this when he has his turn with the children)?

I’m afraid the more I read, the more exasperated I feel - with YOU!!

Mapleleaf I think there is some confusion? I understood the reference to baby sitting and the £1200 car repair to refer to the other son not the one living with her and it seemed to be made in response to questions people had asked as to whether he minded his brother being treated this way

If you are putting the purchase of alcohol before the paying of your bills, you have a ‘drink’ problem. If you cannot work because you have spent the money on drink, you have a problem. If his relationship with his wife failed because he couldn’t afford to pay his way but still managed to buy alcohol, you have a problem. You may not be an alcoholic but you could well be slipping towards it and you definitely have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. Just read any of the NHS leaflets and you will see they say the same.

Sorry, I made a mistake there, I think you meant you do babysitting for the other son not the 40 year old? And that it was this son you paid £1200 for his car bill? If that’s the case, apologies there.
Even taking this into account, I still think your 40 year old needs some tough love. He’s taking serious advantage of you.

Yes, I think there is some real denial about the drink problem. The 4 cans of beer a day is just the start. How much does he drink at the pub? Etc
And people who are alcoholics are often very friendly gregarious people,
And he smokes so he will be in a coronary care unit soon.
Please wake up and start to tackle this situation.
Please talk to your OH about it.

I would make sure his physical health is taken into consideration is lungs and liver. Ask your GP to invite him for a health check ? Then think about his mental health. Very often a drink problem is hiding a mental illness, depression etc..

I am sure most have been said. Your son has leant skills and uses them to get his own way. It is all a bit of a joke to him and everyone enjoys his company and he will push whilst he can get away with it. He knows he doesn't have to give the money back. You enjoy his company, even your OH just rolls his eyes but likes him. The problem is you don't know how to smilingly tell him to get lost when he asks for money or throw his cigarettes out and leave his beer cans to fill his bedroom. In some ways he enjoys the arguments and getting away with things and feels he is very clever. Take away his fun.

If you don’t like confrontation you could tell him that smoking and drinking whilst you are babysitting your GS is not on and is risking the child’s health and well being.

Which it is.

Your question is "what are you supposed to do?" and you say he drives you to distraction. You know what you should do.

I know very well what (some) single sons can be like. If you let them, they will happily sit there, and be waited on, and let you look after them, like you always have.

You have already thought, what happens when I'm not here? You don't take any action as that's the easiest route.

But it's not the best thing for him, in the long run. You are his Mum, you should be helping him get independent now. If you start now to cut the apron strings a bit, you're still around for guidance and no doubt the odd cash handout still.

It's up to you. The alternative is, 20 years down the line or whenever, he is suddenly alone in his 60s and rather useless in all ways. He could end up on the streets. There are lots of ways you can help him now. Do it for him.