Gender critical trans woman

Yes you're right Madgran not everyone is but those of us who are very concerned about the proposed change to self-identication I think on the whole are concerned about the radical trans extremists and they way they have and have been allowed to hi-jack the whole decision making process.

paddyann - I want my GC to grow up as themselves, uncluttered by influences that could mar their lives by introducing concepts that might disturb their development.

It is nothing to do with a victim mentality, and everything to do with sheltering them from strident lobbyists.

Danielle Muscato is a very bad example to choose. The man is a troll. Real trans people will at least be trying to live in the way they feel they should.

That's the point - real trans people are not the ones pressuring for this change in legislation to allow anyone to self-identity their gender without any counselling or medical help.

paddyann, your criticism of those of us who share concerns about some intact men who identify themselves as women sharing our safe spaces are aimed at "you" - i.e. the majority of contributors to this discussion. Sometimes, when a disparate group of people find common ground, that suggests there is indeed broad agreement.
There was mention early in this discussion about the view that for some people, the belief they were born in the wrong body is a psychological issue. Psychologists and psychiatrists are in the early stages of understanding these things. Our children need factual information and emotional support. They need to be allowed to play and experiment with identifies through creative play and not to be forced to be a 'proper' girl or boy. The last thing they need is to be overly encouraged to play out any concerns or desires to be the opposite gender. There was a recent case where a boy was placed with his father after the family court found his mother was encouraging him to dress as a girl, use a girls name etc - he was 7.

Luckygirl and Iam64 excellent posts. Have no problem with transgender people if they are happier in their new bodies but I am concerned at the politicisation of this issue. Especially encouraging young children to go well beyond the normal experimentation with gender identity which is fairly normal in childhood and is part of growing up.

I watched the recent Horizon programme on Catch up last night and I wonder about the massive medical intervention needed to facilitate transgender. I also wonder whether these people are ever truly happy. It's a culture change like going to live in another country 'toujours l'etranger ' someone once said to me about marrying a Frenchman and going to live in France. Personal unhappiness has spawned many a revolutionary change not always for the better.

Am I correct in thinking that if this legislation is passed, Ian Huntley will be able to carry out his wish to be regarded as a woman called Lianne, without any counselling or treatment with medication or surgery?
And that he can then insist on being transferred to a women's prison?

Good question FarNorth - the first question I think the answer is yes, second question - I wonder if that's been thought through?

I suspect the answer to both your questions is Yes FarNorth. He can dress as a woman and say he chooses not to have surgery but identifies as a woman. Unless I'm misunderstanding the proposed changes in the law (and I accept I may be) then, why couldn't he apply to be transferred to a woman's prison. He may well think he'd be in for an easier time in one of the women's prisons but I'm unconvinced he'd be right.

He could well pose a danger to some of the women prisoners.
It will be a complete nightmare if men are able to do this.

Jenny Murray was criticised for suggesting that people like Caitlin Jenner had no idea what the struggle for equality women of Jenny's generation had experienced. Caitlan had talked about how wonderful it was to be a woman and have what she was going to wear top of her morning agenda. We wish eh! Well not really, I wouldn't want my frock of the day to be the most important issue of my day. In fact, its usually which pair of scruffy dog walking jeans I put on, are yesterday's too grubby or will they do to walk another dog? Ian Huntley is a psychopath. He was a sex offender as a man, to adult women and children. Identifying himself as female surely won't change his predatory behaviour?

He might request a move and to be treated as a woman, but surely the authorities won't go along with. It won't happen surely? Although if it did, I'm sure it won't take long for him to be sussed out and sorted by the other inmates.

Intact male prisoners have already been placed in womens' prisons ( and then moved because they had sex with the women prisoners).

An article today in the Sunday Telegraph by a genital reconstruction surgeon working in Belgrade and America about the number of reversal surgeries he has carried out and also people waiting for this surgery. The cases of severe depression and potential suicide is very high.
Patients age group asking for first operation has gone down now having some as young as 21 where before, it started in the 35 to 50 group. A Dr in this country has been censured for having young teens going through hormone therapy.
The Professor writing the article says the lengthy process of assessment and counselling is being bypassed ,with some unscrupulous surgeons just asking " do you have the money?"

I've just whizzed a letter to my MP and also signed the change.org petition calling out the 38 degrees decision withdrawing its support. Disgraceful!

Blinko could you just give a link or a bit more info. I don't know what you mean and have had a quick look on the change.org website and I can't see anything. I increasingly wonder about the point of all these petitions, does anyone take them seriously anymore? Even if they get debated, the government sticks to its guns, eg. women's pension escalation.

I've been pondering more on the people focused on in the Horizon documentary and thinking that, as far as one can tell, they want to change gender to fit some idea in their heads, i.e. to be a girly woman with a high pitched voice who likes pink which is a far cry, for instance, from the practical, jean-wearing, no nonsense women from the disabled volunteering group I attend. Similarly, the young girl wanting to change to a boy wanted to wear boys' clothes and have a deep voice. Changing the physical attributes of gender is one thing, dealing with the psychological implications, long term, is another. I'm with Jenny Murray I think and I'm most concerned about this being pushed onto young, impressionable people and especially children.

maryeliza54 I was trying to be politically correct, against my better judgement, for just this type of scenario. I DEFINITELY would walk out of an institution (or gym, or Toilets) if there were intact males welcomed. Sorry, but there are just too many perverts in the world who may be prepared to go to those lengths. If they want to be a woman then have the operation and be done with it.

Paddyann - but are they comfortable using men's changing rooms?

Sorry, Azie09, I thought I found the link with change.org via one of the links already posted on here, but I've trawled back through them all and can't find it. I'll keep trying, maybe something will jog my memory in the right direction.

Gottit! It's from your link, Azie09 to Transgender Trend, Gov't proposes that everyone has the right to choose their sex. Click on 'read more' and scrolling down you'll see the change.org reference to the 38 degrees decision. Hope that helps.....

Thanks Blinko. My own link too!

No problem, Azie09. If I knew how, I would be happy to post my letter in case it could help frame others. I was able to use some of the information from that very link. Most helpful, thank you.

Realise that could be ambiguous, I meant post my letter on here....

Lots of excellent arguments here on both sides of the issue. But I'm about to reduce this to its basics.

My granddaughters are now at the age where they ask and are allowed to visit the 'Ladies' in, for example, a restaurant, by themselves, safe in the knowledge that it is frequented only by other women. This independence is part of their growing up.

So this now could mean that any intact male will be entitled to use the same facilities. That simply doesn't feel right, or safe.

Beware the transactivists’ cult. Women and children are at risk from the proposed changes to GRA. Some people who have transitioned are fine and happy, good luck to them. Many of them are appalled at the actions of transactivists. Some trans young people bitterly regret the hormone-blockers and sex-change measures they took when too young to think it through. Their voices are actively silenced by the trans cult. Let’s think for ourselves, equip ourselves with knowledge. “Woman” will soon become a meaningless word. We still have voices at the moment. We can write to our MPs and make a difference.

Anya totally agree.