Hooray - the Conservatives won the election!

As usual you didn't answer the question Anniebach and resorted to posting things you have done before. Could you tell me why Brown and Milliband failed to win elections and who the great leader you are waiting for might be?
If you say an election can be won by a great leader using the same centre left policies that lost the last 2 you must have someone in mind.

trisher, I said good leader not great leader

Milliband failed partly because Labour had been in power longer than any other party and he was seen to be moving to the left

Brown? That damn playing of the bigot tape cost him so many votes and a fourth win had not been done before . He is a good man , and I have much respect for him.

Difficult to name a leader now , momentum would cruxify them. Perhaps a woman ,not Thornberry ! What about Yvette Cooper?

anniebach On the one hand you say that people who are concerned about immigrants should be listened to and respected but on the other you make excuses for Brown calling someone a bigot for expressing those concerns. It seems to me that your judgment on various politicians' behaviour depends very much upon whether you agree with them or not.

I don't believe Labour was moving to the left - the press may have tried to give that impression but, as many people know, the press can always be relied upon to do their best to rubbish Labour. The only vaguely "left wing" policies put forward were for a ban on some zero hours contracts, scrapping the bedroom tax and a proposal to bring in some sort of mansion tax. So far as economic policy was concerned, Miliband and Balls agreed that Labour would, to all intents and purposes, be following the Conservatives' austerity agenda. Additionally, Labour jumped on the anti-immigration bandwagon by producing a souvenir mug inscribed with the words "Controls on Immigration. I am Voting Labour" (which I think was pretty shabby).

Isn't it quite possible that those who went along with the austerity agenda would be unlikely to vote for a very slightly watered down version of it, and those who were suffering from austerity policies would have felt let down by Labour and disclined to support it?

Eleothan, please quote where I made an excuse fir Brown calling a person a bigot, I am more than fed up with twisting of posts by one group here.

Now just reply with the excuse you claim I used please

I think the worst thing with Brown and that women was when He tried to explain. Cringe, I hid behind the sofa.

At least he didn't squeal - you are harassing me

Eleothan, it seems to me you launch in with untrue accusations to score points with your little group

Here we are again,having a go a clear-sighted Labour supporter who sees the current problems with the Left movement in a pragmatic and sensible way (send the cheque later AB). Yet she is attacked because of her disdain for Corbyn and cronies.

ps Have you noticed that McDonnell has adopted the Corbyn Squint in his eye. Neither of those two see very well,

Thank you Beam, some have such an obsession with Corbyn it's quite alarming . What really upsets me is the fact some lovely posters have left GN because they are pounced on by the obsessed , there are labour supporters who are centre or left of centre but not allowed a voice, I feared militancy and have been proved right . I feel I am trying to exchange some views with George Galloway

I think the hard left is in a state of fear and shock. To-day America tomorrow Europe and the World.
You cannot be a Canute. The tide will not turn.

I agree Beam, I so agree

Oops, clicked too soon. I think the far left are as dangerous as the far right , it's their way or no way

No one on here is part of a"group" as has been alleged, some of us happen to believe in certain principles that once upon a time the Labour party stood for. We have looked at why the last two elections were lost and concluded that only some genuine left wing policies that really present a strong opposition will succeed.We have done this completely independently and for a range of reasons. However because of our views we are accused of being members of Momentum of being Corbynistas and of somehow being a 'group'. I don't particularly care who leads the Labour party providing they lead a party whose policies present a real agenda for change for improving social conditions, dealing with the housing crisis and fighting the rise of right wing parties.

trisher that is right, however it does seem to have turned into a Corbyn cult amongst some Labour party members and many Labour voters have been alienated by this and by McDonnell unfortunately (including my family and many of the people in their constituency which was a mining area).

Is anyone sure exactly what Corbyn represents? As long as he hides behind the group surrounding him we, the general public, (not Labour party members) will never find out.

Spot on Jalima, if labour members are shouted down by Corbynites in their local party meetings as they are here , and in many parts of the country this is happening, people will leave as some have left here

i am anti Corbyn because he is destroying the party yet I am accused of having a personal vendetta , I do not see it as personal and not a vendetta

I think back to the thread on traingate , the defence of Corbyn put forward was pitiful

It's only a cult because you choose to see it as such. If you could supply another leader who has left wing policies and doesn't have links to the Blair administration it would help. But as far as I can see no one else is willing to take on the job and lead a proper opposition. Names have been suggested but they have never stepped forward. Mind you I now suspect that Ed Balls may be about to step out of Strictly into power and who knows our next Prime Minister might be a TV star just like the American president.

It is a cult trisher , what choice is there? MP's who have only been in the house a few years or less or MP's who have been labour MP's since Blair was PM? You are dismissing MP's who have been in the house nine years or more , this is why I think it is now a cult with it's own rules - no MP elected before 2007, no MP who is not militant , this has never been how the Labour Party has worked untill momentum was born

Do you really believe labour will win the next election without votes from the centre?

Ed Balks cannot step out of strictly into power, he is not an MP, did you not know this or just mocking?

I think DH and I thought he would never be able to enter politics again although you never know, there does seem to be a cultivation of celebrity these days, with everyone from Lily Allen's to Gary Lineker's views being taken as gospel.

Recently a link was posted on something said by Michael Sheen , he is a good actor, does much charity work especially for Wales, so yes celebs opinions are important to some

MP today, not an MP tomorrow- it's a process that can be reversed you know. Nice, comfortable, secure seat and he is back in. Don't tell me it can't happen. Then a couple of years to the next election and it's happened before you know it. I imagine many people were saying a few years ago "Trump can't be President he has never held any office." In fact some people were saying it very recently.

Then trisher big difference to your claim - out of strictly into power ,

Ed Balls - clutching at straws.
Like Michael Portillo, he has become much nicer since leaving politics; why go back to the Whitehall Jungle when you can turn a buck in pleasanter ways and also become liked?

Keep nit-picking Anniebach, even humour is better with your comments.

Ni need for more insults trisher