Prince Charles in Ireland

I felt fear during the early days of the troubles when it seemed impossible to spend any time in a store/theatre/cinema/court building in manchester without a bomb scare. Within a few weeks some kind of denial / resistance seemed to take hold of the population and we transformed into the kind of Brits who simply shrugged our shoulders, left the building, hung around outside (usually in the rain) until the all clear was given. The bomb in the Arndale centre rattled us but somehow made people even more determined not to "give in". What on earth does that mean? I remember a friend whose parents moved to manchester from ireland before she was born, saying "we'll be bombed to the negotiating table". How right she was.

I understand feelings of anger and mistrust, I've said earlier I share those feelings towards Gerry A and Martin M, as well as the gangsters who ran the UDA. I don't like extremism in any form but I don't believe that feeling hatred towards people helps any of us.

I think it helps me.

Not fear for myself jingle, fear for those in danger of harm ,

Yes jbf I admire Gerry Adams. It wasn't an easy decision to sign up to the peace process, there were amongst the IRA some people who thought of it as being a traitor to the cause. There still are some who regard him as such. He took a difficult decision and brought a movement with him. If he hadn't done so we might still be suffering the bombs and killings. How do you think we came to the situation today? By some sort of magic? The peace process needed the commitment of all concerned. Shaking hands with the Prince of Wales, Commander in Chief of the Paras, the regiment responsible for Bloody Sunday, shows an ability to move on that some people, less involved in the conflict than GA, seem to find impossible.

"How do you think we came to the situation today? By some sort of magic"

Don't be so bloody insulting.

What makes you think you followed the peace process more carefully than I did?

Didn't the dwindling funds for the IRA from America have something to do with it?

Is it less insulting to call someone "crass"?
I don't know what you know about the peace process but acknowledging the efforts of all involved is a part of understanding it.

Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness have re-invented themselves.

Many of us are not fooled.

I'm not sure anyone commenting on here is "fooled" as you put it merlotgran. I'm sure Prince Charles isn't "fooled" either. Sometimes, the greater good means compromise and diplomacy. That is what we're seeing here imo.

I agree Iam - Mandela and Tutu are also examples in a different context. They weren't 'fooled' by the Nationalists but knew that to move on, compromise and a veneer of civility towards past enemies was essential. That's what makes people 'statesmen'. I'm a rabid republican but I really respect Charles for being prepared to do this meeting and handshake - another step in the slow process. And Merlot, I'm surprised that you think anyone is 'fooled'. This wasn't about fooling but a symbol about about moving forward - it was a carefully thought through act that people considered would make a positive contribution to the Irish situation.

And quite frankly, anyone who thinks that the IRA were the whole problem knows nothing about Irish history and the grievous wrongs that RCs suffered from Elizabeth 1's times through to the Peace Agreement . I'm still amazed that things have changed so much although there is clearly a way to go.

Agree with trisher and Grannytwice. It's forgotten the IRA was formed for the same reasons as the ANC, why do some think England has a god given right to control any country. Every day we hear of Muslims and immigrants not accepting British values - what ever they are - we have done the same to other countries for centuries . Australia, New Zealand, India, S A, Ireland etc . I cringe when I hear Rule Britannia, God who made thee mighty! No god did not, guns did. The ANC and the IRA fought back with the same . I admire the Irish people who accepted the visit from Charles with forgiveness

How can anyone who once condoned the cruelty that went on before the peace process suddenly become decent, honourable human beings? I know we have to work with them for the sake of all, but the past did happen and ruined lives are still being led, without their lost loved ones.

And I'm talking about terrorists and terrorist leaders, on both sides.

Oh, and btw trisher, I didn't call you crass.

Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness make my blood boil. they are fooling no one - on second thoughts, maybe they are.

Jingle, do you condemn the ANC? And yes the past did happen and ruin lives but does the past start with the forming of the IRA or with the reasons for the forming of the IRA. Bombing is so wrong, evicting families and taking land from people because of their faith is so wrong , hatred breeds hatred, the crown taught the Irish to hate

At present, as I understand it, only 7% of pupils in Northern Ireland are educated in integrated schools. I personally think that this is the key to it all. Without integration at an early age, the two sides will not each learn that the other does not have horns and a tail and sectarianism will die the death if deserves. Otherwise the urban mythology is self perpetuating.

"I cringe when I hear Rule Britannia"

What a horrible lot the English are! Whilst I'm only part English myself, I feel that part of my English heritage needs to be reminded frequently how we opressed the Irish since the time of Elizabeth 1, became colonolists all over the world and benefited from all the ills that went with that, because seemingly none of us will have read about any of this and we mistakenly think we are somehow, as individuals, not that bad. After all we didn't play any part in all that, and don't think it was something we should glory in. Even though most of the English nation didn't have the vote or have any say in policy making, and many etched out a life in poverty, that doesn't let us off the hook, English blood is enough to make you an opressor. Look how we subjugated the Welsh and the Scots, this is our legacy, and no amount of mea culpas can make any difference we the English did that. We only need a bit of English blood to make us culpable of being complicit in all the atrocities commited in our name in any country we leeched off.

Nevertheless, now we are all "one" nation as it were with our European neighbours, let us not mention the fact that Germany started two world wars and tried to wipe out a whole race of people, along with anyone else who didn't measure up to the Ayran ideal, or for that matter the colonolist French, Spanish, Dutch, Belgian, Portuguese who also carved up large parts of the world between them. Lets go with the proposal to rename Waterloo station in London in case any French person get too upset that we defeated their marauding expansionist emperor at that battle.

Sorry to be a bit off subject here but I often pick up an anti English sentiments from a Gransnetter or two on occasions. I'm not anti Irish, French or German some of my family hail from those places I detect a "Lets move on" attitude in Europe and don't imagine that those who like to beat the English with a big stick from time to time would choose to do that to some of our European counterparts.

Sorry. What has the ANC got to do with Prince Charles being in Ireland and meeting Adams?

I certainly condemn all those horrible people who carried out the "necklace" killings. And those who imprisoned Nelson Mandela.

I think you have to let go of horrible wrongs that happened in the past. Otherwise you are in danger of becoming embittered.

Agree with Greyduster.

Speaking of dusters.... [roastchickenievacuumcleaner]

Jingle, you are not willing to let go of the wrongs carried out by the IRA

No. But I do try to see both sides. And I hope I do not sound embittered.

Just out of interest, do you have Irish roots?