Thousands of prisoners to be released, starting from today.

cranial = criminal 🥱

Another thing that is the polar opposite of what we should be doing. This country needs a major dose of zero tolerance to all forms of crime, not letting thieves and wife beaters roam freely with beaming grins. What kind of message does this send? We, as a country, are well and truly done for.

Domestic abusers are out of prison today delighted at having to serve only one third of their sentences.

It’s a joke.

And I’m not blaming AB personally although it’s a wrong decision

14 years of Tory not building prisons has caused this.

But ponder this too.

When a person driving a train can earn twice what a prison guard earns then no wonder there’s a recruitment problem.

New prisons are needed for sure.
But we need the staff to man them.

Would any of your family volunteer for such work? Hmm.

Am not sure how decisions are made about who should be released but as a matter of common sense I imagine those guilty of theft, fraud, or other crimes unrelated to causing bodily harm with the potential to reoffend, should be released before domestic abusers. Is a gamble whichever way you look at it but would rather have a person who stole cars walking the street than someone who beat their partner to a pulp.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

Another thing that is the polar opposite of what we should be doing. This country needs a major dose of zero tolerance to all forms of crime, not letting thieves and wife beaters roam freely with beaming grins. What kind of message does this send? We, as a country, are well and truly done for.

Domestic abusers are out of prison today delighted at having to serve only one third of their sentences.

It’s a joke.

And I’m not blaming AB personally although it’s a wrong decision

14 years of Tory not building prisons has caused this.

But ponder this too.

When a person driving a train can earn twice what a prison guard earns then no wonder there’s a recruitment problem.

New prisons are needed for sure.
But we need the staff to man them.

Would any of your family volunteer for such work? Hmm.

I completely agree.

But in the very short term, what should happen?

The nightingale hospitals were built in a short time during covid. Although they would obviously need to be more secure could prisons be rolled out as quickly?

The government found enough money to give the train drivers a huge increase after weeks and weeks of strikes but not for the prison personnel who cannot strike.

An experienced train driver earns around £76k and an experienced prison officer around £40k - only half as much. No wonder they cannot recruit

One Nightingale hospital was built inside the Birmingham NEC. Other 'Nightingale hospitals' were not new builds they were converted spaces. Cant do this with prisons for obvious security reasons.

They were a temporary structures, as an emergency measure at huge cost and ultimately decommissioned due to lack of specialist intensive care staff. 1000s of beds purchased for £24 million were found unfit for clinical use and sold at auction with £410,000. Very, very few patients were treated.

Lesson were learned!

Nightingale hospitals failed to get up and running and misnomer to say they were and continue to be new functioning hospitals.

sundowngirl

The nightingale hospitals were built in a short time during covid. Although they would obviously need to be more secure could prisons be rolled out as quickly?

The government found enough money to give the train drivers a huge increase after weeks and weeks of strikes but not for the prison personnel who cannot strike.

An experienced train driver earns around £76k and an experienced prison officer around £40k - only half as much. No wonder they cannot recruit

There were 7 Nightingale hospitals erected.

Some didn’t even treat a single case of Covid.

They didn’t have anywhere near enough staff and were actually considered a “failure”.

No longer in use and costing £350m+

There are some existing hospitals still n use built or converted during COVID, but the 7 Nightingale buildings/conversions are no longer in use as hospitals.

Prison Wardens are public sectors employees, train drivers work for the private sector and are not in any way comparable.

Fallingstar

Am not sure how decisions are made about who should be released but as a matter of common sense I imagine those guilty of theft, fraud, or other crimes unrelated to causing bodily harm with the potential to reoffend, should be released before domestic abusers. Is a gamble whichever way you look at it but would rather have a person who stole cars walking the street than someone who beat their partner to a pulp.

Domestic abuse convictions will be allowed out early

Cossy - I believe they are comparable as it was the government that gave into the train drivers after months of strikes

Although UK train drivers work for distinct Train Operating Companies (TOCs) rather than being traditional direct civil servants, the government effectively controls the purse strings of the rail network.

The state was able to step in and fund the major ASLEF pay deal due to the specific financial structure of the UK rail system.

If they can do it for the rail workers they could do it for the prison officers

Sarnia that's what I've always said, it's ridiculous why should we have to pay for these criminals? It costs a fortune. They should not be let out onto our streets, they should be deported.

Cossy

I think many of you are using this as yet another excuse to “left” bash.

This isn’t new, it’s not a left or right thing.

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-10974/

Just to be very very clear, no violent, murderers, or rapists or child killers will be released early.

There’s no need to bash the “Left”, they are making a fine fist of it themselves!

I did not bring politics into this thread, that seems to have been yourself.

Are we supposed to ignore current topics that affects thousands of people and just post material that is approved of by some on here?

Domestic abusers ARE being let out.

sundowngirl

Cossy - I believe they are comparable as it was the government that gave into the train drivers after months of strikes

Although UK train drivers work for distinct Train Operating Companies (TOCs) rather than being traditional direct civil servants, the government effectively controls the purse strings of the rail network.

The state was able to step in and fund the major ASLEF pay deal due to the specific financial structure of the UK rail system.

If they can do it for the rail workers they could do it for the prison officers

Although UK train drivers work for distinct Train Operating Companies (TOCs) rather than being traditional direct civil servants, the government effectively controls the purse strings of the rail network.

They never were civil servants even before privatisation.

There was and is a difference between public sector employees and civil servants.

We have to have some room in prisons for future dangerous killers, terrorists and rapists.
If the prisons remain over full where would those criminals go?
Early release has not been decided lightly. There is no other choice.

And, of course, criminals are getting lighter sentences or let off altogether because of overcrowding. What a mess!

I do not think rapists and sexual abusers are being let out today. A lot of the prison population are homeless once out, a lot will have severe mental health issues. They were in overcrowded cells with no rehabilitation, no family to take them in, not knowing where they will sleep tonight. This is a disgrace.. they will break the law swiftly to get back in prison.
None of this helps them become useful members of society, they are written off. Prisons are just holding pens.
I feel very much for the victims of crime and their feeling are paramount. Everyone is let down. I worked with young men whose mother's were only interested in their latest boyfriend, it used to break my heart, they never asked to be born,I used to go home to my children, much wanted with all the advantages of a family around them denied those boys, so eventually i changed career. These young men need intervention very early in their lives, with make and female mentors. so they don’t turn into criminals and vuctims of gangs etc.

Allsorts

I do not think rapists and sexual abusers are being let out today. A lot of the prison population are homeless once out, a lot will have severe mental health issues. They were in overcrowded cells with no rehabilitation, no family to take them in, not knowing where they will sleep tonight. This is a disgrace.. they will break the law swiftly to get back in prison.
None of this helps them become useful members of society, they are written off. Prisons are just holding pens.
I feel very much for the victims of crime and their feeling are paramount. Everyone is let down. I worked with young men whose mother's were only interested in their latest boyfriend, it used to break my heart, they never asked to be born,I used to go home to my children, much wanted with all the advantages of a family around them denied those boys, so eventually i changed career. These young men need intervention very early in their lives, with make and female mentors. so they don’t turn into criminals and vuctims of gangs etc.

Well said.

Primrose rightly or wrongly, Domestic Abusers were always going to be let out.

I’m not at all in favour of early release schemes, however I’m also not in favour of locking away anyone who has not committed a violent, abusive or sexual crime.

I think our entire criminal justice system is flawed, doesn’t work and doesn’t protect victims highly enough (or at all in some cases).

JenniRen

sundowngirl
Cossy - I believe they are comparable as it was the government that gave into the train drivers after months of strikes

Although UK train drivers work for distinct Train Operating Companies (TOCs) rather than being traditional direct civil servants, the government effectively controls the purse strings of the rail network.

The state was able to step in and fund the major ASLEF pay deal due to the specific financial structure of the UK rail system.

If they can do it for the rail workers they could do it for the prison officers
Although UK train drivers work for distinct Train Operating Companies (TOCs) rather than being traditional direct civil servants, the government effectively controls the purse strings of the rail network.

They never were civil servants even before privatisation.

There was and is a difference between public sector employees and civil servants.

I agree and you cannot compare heir salaries.

All CS, are in all departments, salaried on a “gradist” system.

If any civil service grade, within only one department, suddenly received a huge pay increase, other departments pod look for similar increases.

Civil Servants and Public Sector Workers are not the same thing.

Their salaries and jobs are therefore are not comparable.

There are almost 11000 foreign nationals in our prisons

I don’t suppose their own countries are falling over themselves to have them back though.

And even if they did, there must be British nationals in foreign prisons who would then end up being sent back here, tit for tat.

And building new prisons (no money for that, of course), would still mean you need the prison officers, trained, to work there.

And then the powers that be wonder why so many people are against illegal migrants, asylum seekers, whatever you call them, costing money that could be spent in so many other ways.

It is an abomination all those foreign nationals in our prisons that we the tax payers fund. If you are interested just research you will see how are own youngsters are the true victims.cWe have too many wooly headed out if touch do gooders. MWhat is needed it a total ban on anyone coming until the backlog is sorted. Those not agreeing, can vouch and fund a few people, put your money where your mouth is but they won’t that is left to the rest of the population struggling to exist with prices going up daily but not wages. Everywhere you go people are angry about this, no government take notice just put their head in the sand. Wait until their families feel the brunt, they might listen then,

I have just been watching Vanessa Frake, MBE on TV. She has 27 years experience of prison work, working her way up through the ranks to become Head of Security and Operations at Wormwood Scrubs. So she clearly has vast experience and knows far more about this early release scheme than any of us.

She says it is madness that AB is putting the problem back on to the community to deal with and it will not work. Some of those released have hundreds of convictions and know nothing other than prison. Some have been released today and do not even have anywhere to live! So they will be living rough and probably stealing or burgling to get by.

She also said prison officers need more pay and they do not get paid overtime. There is a national shortage of probation officers too so those leaving prison will not get appropriate support.

She says prisons could be built in modular fashion very quickly for low risk prisoners and empty prisons could also be brought back into service to help solve this crisis.

I thought she spoke a lot of sense.

Oh and she said all foreign criminals should be deported to free up space for our own criminals. Pretty obvious really.

Foreign Nationals currently n our prisons, are not all Asylum Seekers and are deported after they’ve served all, or some of their sentences. Would you rather they were deported straight from court after being found guilty?

How would this work? Would this mean they might not be imprisoned n their own country?

AI

“Automatic and Discretionary Deportation

• Automatic Deportation: Under the UK Borders Act 2007, the Home Secretary has a legal duty to make a deportation order for any non-British or non-Irish citizen who receives a custodial sentence of 12 months or more.

• Discretionary Powers: The government can also choose to deport foreign nationals given shorter sentences or non-custodial penalties if their removal is deemed "conducive to the public good".

• Early Removal Schemes: Rather than waiting until the exact end of a sentence, the Early Removal Scheme (ERS) allows eligible foreign national prisoners to be removed from prison and deported up to several months before their release date.”

Primrose53

I have just been watching Vanessa Frake, MBE on TV. She has 27 years experience of prison work, working her way up through the ranks to become Head of Security and Operations at Wormwood Scrubs. So she clearly has vast experience and knows far more about this early release scheme than any of us.

She says it is madness that AB is putting the problem back on to the community to deal with and it will not work. Some of those released have hundreds of convictions and know nothing other than prison. Some have been released today and do not even have anywhere to live! So they will be living rough and probably stealing or burgling to get by.

She also said prison officers need more pay and they do not get paid overtime. There is a national shortage of probation officers too so those leaving prison will not get appropriate support.

She says prisons could be built in modular fashion very quickly for low risk prisoners and empty prisons could also be brought back into service to help solve this crisis.

I thought she spoke a lot of sense.

Why did she not speak up when the previous government did exactly the same thing in 2024?

Why did she not tell that government, in power for 14 long years, how “easy” it s t build new prisons?