Thousands of prisoners to be released, starting from today.

The previous Conservative government under Rishi Sunak released more than 10,000 prisoners early between October 2023 and June/July 2024 under the End of Custody Supervised Licence (ECSL) scheme.
📅 ECSL Scheme Timeline & Scale
• Launch Date: Introduced in October 2023 to manage severe prison overcrowding.

Would you rather they were deported straight from court after being found guilty?

Yes, I think I would. Up to their country to imprison them then.

Calendargirl

^Would you rather they were deported straight from court after being found guilty?^

Yes, I think I would. Up to their country to imprison them then.

How would that work, as other countries would do the same with the British prisoners they hold? I’m not under the illusion that there aren’t thousands of British people in prison overseas.

Threads like this annoy me unless the complainers have practical alternatives to what the government of the day proposes.

Should new offenders not go to prison because they are full?

Get the inmates to build more prisons. There must be all the necessary construction trades represented amongst the prisoners.

Cossy

Primrose53

I have just been watching Vanessa Frake, MBE on TV. She has 27 years experience of prison work, working her way up through the ranks to become Head of Security and Operations at Wormwood Scrubs. So she clearly has vast experience and knows far more about this early release scheme than any of us.

She says it is madness that AB is putting the problem back on to the community to deal with and it will not work. Some of those released have hundreds of convictions and know nothing other than prison. Some have been released today and do not even have anywhere to live! So they will be living rough and probably stealing or burgling to get by.

She also said prison officers need more pay and they do not get paid overtime. There is a national shortage of probation officers too so those leaving prison will not get appropriate support.

She says prisons could be built in modular fashion very quickly for low risk prisoners and empty prisons could also be brought back into service to help solve this crisis.

I thought she spoke a lot of sense.

Why did she not speak up when the previous government did exactly the same thing in 2024?

Why did she not tell that government, in power for 14 long years, how “easy” it s t build new prisons?

Ask her. I was just reporting what she said tonight.

She didn’t say it was easy. They are your quotation marks.

LemonJam

Cossy- I agree. The age range of prison population is of concern. Those in prison over state pension age has been slowly and progressively rising over the past 15 years or so. The demand for health provision for the long term conditions of those elderly prisoners has also grown and is expensive.

When prisoners come out of custody to attend local NHS services, more frequently for elderly prisoners, they need 2 officers- costs come from escort and bed watch budgeta- which have been slowly rising and rising alongside the rise in age of prison population.

Maybe that’s why they have got themselves in there- three square meals a day, washing all done. Nice hot showers.
Free gym/ library.
Don’t have to pay for a tv licence.
Work if they want it.
What’s not to like!!

Primrose53

Cossy

Primrose53

I have just been watching Vanessa Frake, MBE on TV. She has 27 years experience of prison work, working her way up through the ranks to become Head of Security and Operations at Wormwood Scrubs. So she clearly has vast experience and knows far more about this early release scheme than any of us.

She says it is madness that AB is putting the problem back on to the community to deal with and it will not work. Some of those released have hundreds of convictions and know nothing other than prison. Some have been released today and do not even have anywhere to live! So they will be living rough and probably stealing or burgling to get by.

She also said prison officers need more pay and they do not get paid overtime. There is a national shortage of probation officers too so those leaving prison will not get appropriate support.

She says prisons could be built in modular fashion very quickly for low risk prisoners and empty prisons could also be brought back into service to help solve this crisis.

I thought she spoke a lot of sense.

Why did she not speak up when the previous government did exactly the same thing in 2024?

Why did she not tell that government, in power for 14 long years, how “easy” it s t build new prisons?

Ask her. I was just reporting what she said tonight.

She didn’t say it was easy. They are your quotation marks.

Vanessa Frake retired in 2013.
I expect she was just expressing an opinion gained from her experience, as she is no longer employed in the Prison Service nor as a Government Adviser.

The Sentencing Act 2026 came into force today, 1st October.

I think you will find that there are more foreign prisoners housed here than English prisoners abroad, unless you are counting other English speaking nations.
Also I don’t agree with Lucy Connolly being banged- clean record, mother to two young children. She could have been tagged & put under house arrest.
I think kS wanted to make an example of her tbh.

Cossy

nanna8

Well they could build a few more jails or is that just too hard ? Whilst they are at it, a few more hospitals wouldn’t go astray. Same applies here though not quite so bad on the jail situation. Probably worse on the hospitals, though. Plenty of work for the builders unions, they should relish the thought.

We were promised many new hospitals by our Tory govt who were in power for 14 years. None materialised.

2 and a quarter years later you’re expecting prisons and hospitals to be built and fully functioning! You’re hilarious!

I don’t find it amusing at all. I am not picking on Burnham in particular, just the whole lot of the incompetent politicians for the past many,many years. Start now, at least people would see an effort is being made. If it were China they would have buildings up in weeks, not decades.

I totally agree MT62 about Lucy Connolly and also now Danny Tommo jailed for slashing a dinghy.

Just checked this...
Daniel Thomas was accused of interfering with a maritime emergency/rescue operation in the English Channel.

He then failed to disclose the PIN to his phone which is an offence under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act.

His bail application was rejected. He argued the allegations were "politically charged and fundamentally flawed" but this didn't work as this carries no weight under the Bail Act 1976.
Judge Newton-Price explicitly stated he was putting all political considerations completely aside.

Withholding electronic evidence creates a strong risk of interfering with the administration of justice or obstructing evidence if released on bail.

Just thought I'd find out the truth here.

MT62

I think you will find that there are more foreign prisoners housed here than English prisoners abroad, unless you are counting other English speaking nations.
Also I don’t agree with Lucy Connolly being banged- clean record, mother to two young children. She could have been tagged & put under house arrest.
I think kS wanted to make an example of her tbh.

Maybe, but the UK government has a target to build 14,000 additional prison places in England and Wales by 2031 to address severe overcrowding. So even if all foreign born prisoners were returned to their country of origin, and no British born prisoners came back here to our prisons, there would still be a big shortfall in prison spaces. What do you think the alterntive to early releases is in the meantime?

should new offenders not go to prison because they are full?

Two released prisoners on the News were asked what their offences had been,

‘Dangerous Driving’ and ‘Shoplifting’ were the replies.

Well, should they have been imprisoned then?

Or do they just carry on offending this type of crime with no deterrent?

I don’t know what the answer is,

And neither, I suspect, does the government.

A serious offence should be punished, and for example, the only thing that separates a dangerous driver from somebody who for example killed somebody in a fight is that they got lucky, isn’t it?

I don’t think there is an answer, other than building more prison spaces, and looking at other countries for good practice in alternatives to prison for some categories of crime?

Casdon

A serious offence should be punished, and for example, the only thing that separates a dangerous driver from somebody who for example killed somebody in a fight is that they got lucky, isn’t it?

I don’t think there is an answer, other than building more prison spaces, and looking at other countries for good practice in alternatives to prison for some categories of crime?

Sounds sensible.

JenniRen

Primrose53

Cossy

Primrose53

I have just been watching Vanessa Frake, MBE on TV. She has 27 years experience of prison work, working her way up through the ranks to become Head of Security and Operations at Wormwood Scrubs. So she clearly has vast experience and knows far more about this early release scheme than any of us.

She says it is madness that AB is putting the problem back on to the community to deal with and it will not work. Some of those released have hundreds of convictions and know nothing other than prison. Some have been released today and do not even have anywhere to live! So they will be living rough and probably stealing or burgling to get by.

She also said prison officers need more pay and they do not get paid overtime. There is a national shortage of probation officers too so those leaving prison will not get appropriate support.

She says prisons could be built in modular fashion very quickly for low risk prisoners and empty prisons could also be brought back into service to help solve this crisis.

I thought she spoke a lot of sense.

Why did she not speak up when the previous government did exactly the same thing in 2024?

Why did she not tell that government, in power for 14 long years, how “easy” it s t build new prisons?

Ask her. I was just reporting what she said tonight.

She didn’t say it was easy. They are your quotation marks.

Vanessa Frake retired in 2013.
I expect she was just expressing an opinion gained from her experience, as she is no longer employed in the Prison Service nor as a Government Adviser.

The Sentencing Act 2026 came into force today, 1st October.

Yes I know she was retired some years ago but she is still asked to report on prison issues on TV and radio as her experience is vast.

Primrose53

JenniRen

Primrose53

Cossy

Primrose53

I have just been watching Vanessa Frake, MBE on TV. She has 27 years experience of prison work, working her way up through the ranks to become Head of Security and Operations at Wormwood Scrubs. So she clearly has vast experience and knows far more about this early release scheme than any of us.

She says it is madness that AB is putting the problem back on to the community to deal with and it will not work. Some of those released have hundreds of convictions and know nothing other than prison. Some have been released today and do not even have anywhere to live! So they will be living rough and probably stealing or burgling to get by.

She also said prison officers need more pay and they do not get paid overtime. There is a national shortage of probation officers too so those leaving prison will not get appropriate support.

She says prisons could be built in modular fashion very quickly for low risk prisoners and empty prisons could also be brought back into service to help solve this crisis.

I thought she spoke a lot of sense.

Why did she not speak up when the previous government did exactly the same thing in 2024?

Why did she not tell that government, in power for 14 long years, how “easy” it s t build new prisons?

Ask her. I was just reporting what she said tonight.

She didn’t say it was easy. They are your quotation marks.

Vanessa Frake retired in 2013.
I expect she was just expressing an opinion gained from her experience, as she is no longer employed in the Prison Service nor as a Government Adviser.

The Sentencing Act 2026 came into force today, 1st October.

Yes I know she was retired some years ago but she is still asked to report on prison issues on TV and radio as her experience is vast.

Is Vanessa Frake still Reform UK's Justice Advisor. I read they were at odds as she promotes transgender women serving their sentences in female prisons.

Casdon it depends who they are letting out early.
Anyone violent I would say no.

I don’t know who Vanessa Franks is but I agree trans women, who haven’t transitioned (so basically a man in a frock) shouldn’t serve time in a female prison, or a man’s prison for that matter.
I think they should have an annex in the prison where they can serve their time.

MT62

I don’t know who Vanessa Franks is but I agree trans women, who haven’t transitioned (so basically a man in a frock) shouldn’t serve time in a female prison, or a man’s prison for that matter.
I think they should have an annex in the prison where they can serve their time.

Vanessa Franks was a prison officer, governor and then Head of Security at Wormwood Scrubs. She originally worked at women’s prison, Holloway. So she is very experienced and knows her stuff. She was made an MBE for her services. She appears on various TV progs and radio due to her knowledge and experience.

I thought her suggestions on building modular prisons for low risk prisoners or reopening closed prisons were good ideas but now the discussion has veered off towards trans women as often happens on here.

Vanessa Frake, although extremely experienced, is not working in the prison system any longer and has been retired for a number of years.
She was appointed as justice adviser to the Reform Party last year.

MT62

Casdon it depends who they are letting out early.
Anyone violent I would say no.

This is the breakdown of the prison population by category MT62, from the UK Parliament Research Briefings and the Ministry of Justice:

• Violence against the person: 35%
• Sexual offences: ~22%
• Drug offences: ~11% to 19% depending on remand/sentenced status
• Theft and robbery: ~15% combined
• Possession of weapons / Public order / Other: Remaining percentages

Therein lies the issue, there are not enough prisoners in the categories which don’t involve violence to create the capacity needed.

Shoplifters are going to have a field day…..😡

Is that the same for the female population, I would be interested to see it in terms of sex. I bet it isnt the same.