Stand-off in Portadown over Orange March.

I admit I dont fully understand it,

but it seems to me it is too soon for the wounds to be able to heal. Trouble lies just under the surface.

A compromise would be best?

But I really don't think the marches should be allowed through the very key areas.

I agree the needful think is to get on and address those issues all care about, housing, care, education:

but why allow a deliberate attempt to stir up trouble ?

It can only increase divisions.

Its still ongoing. Residents getting support from unionist neighbours. Sorry can't post much atm.

nadateturbe, like you I grew up in a much more mixed society and my parents and grandparents never made any difference, believing in the 'live and let live' attitude. In our business, we employed people from 'both sides' as we fondly term it in NI, on equal terms.
When you think of political situations anywhere in the world those who want to keep power in their hands always try to keep the young on board by whatever means works. Sadly, it is usually by dividing them. Look at most demonstrations across the world where bitter divisions from the past still linger and you will see young on both sides. Meanwhile, we can but watch and wait.

MOnica I would like to think that it was just that, but it’s things like the recent case of a student transporting an explosive device across the border that brings out the sceptic in me. The Good Friday agreement and the “disarming” of the paramilitaries cast a rosy glow over the peace process. DH believed there were those who had cached their arms and were just waiting their time for the right trigger. I hope he was wrong.

Just what’s needed in the UK, the stoking of yet more division.
I despair of people sometimes.

Greyduster Extremists on bothh sides are essential criminal gangs that making too much money from their criminal enterpises to ever do anything to throw away old antagonisms.

I too am saddened by all this. I was always sceptical about “the peace”. The people of Northern Ireland, and Ireland in general, are warm and generous and deserve to be able to shed all this sectarian violence and get on with their lives, but it’s perpetuated by an older generation that can’t let go. This in turn appears still to colour the opinions of the younger generation, as was always the case. God help us all if the country was ever pitched back to the early seventies again.

It was strange they allowed the the Orange March, my grandson lives in NI there has been a lot of anti migrant violence that has inflamed local tension. Not directly involving loyalists but making tension worse and stirring up old prejudices.

Devorgilla my mum's best friend was a Catholic. We didn't care about religion. Sadly she had to move when the troubles started. So sad how this country has changed.
The bombs and murders have hardened attitudes.
Politicians could help people move forward but they don't.
We need young forward looking people in power here.

Just out of interest I looked up how long the service on the 1st July had been dedicated to the Fallen at the Battle of the Somme. The first service was held in 1917. The attendees at that service have therefore walked back via the Garvaghy Road, the main, and most convenient, road back to town from Drumcree for over 100 years. That road was a mixed road but, for safety reasons, the Protestants moved to areas which were predominantly Protestant when the Troubles broke out - as indeed did the Catholics. When the bullets and bombs started flying not unnaturally the attitudes on both sides hardened. Before the Troubles most people whatever their religious persuasion didn't bother too much about them. As often happens in these disputes it becomes a divide and rule seizure of power. That is true of most, if not all, countries. Perhaps we, as a species, are just not very good at accepting diversity

True Aggie, and as I read on I find this fact

The reason the parade has been allowed is because the Parades Commission's decision to ban it was overturned in the High Court as the Parades Commission had made a total cockup.

There are restrictions on the number allowed to parade down Garvaghy Road and l suspect the number trying to parade is so far in excess of that restriction that the police can't allow it to continue, mainly for safety reasons.

There is now an inquiry into the Parades Commission.

What is the Garvaghy Road dispute all about? - BBC News share.google/dfD3Bf36VEUwR3zFH

aggie

The voting thing was one of thr reasons for the civil rights movement i Northern Ireland

As I remember …… if you owned a business you had an extra vote , if owned a business you were more likely to be a Protestant so Unionist votes kept them in power

All true Aggie.

The voting thing was one of thr reasons for the civil rights movement i Northern Ireland

As I remember …… if you owned a business you had an extra vote , if owned a business you were more likely to be a Protestant so Unionist votes kept them in power

All men and women had the vote in NI from the 1921-22 agreement, earlier than the mainland for women. It is true though that, as nadateturbe states, certain conditions such as gerrymandering meant Catholics were more likely to be affected, but poor Protestants also suffered. That said everyone has an equal vote now just as they do in most countries in the world where they too have had to fight for it.
As to the Drumcree dispute, before July 1st 1916 this service did give thanks for William of Orange winning the war which established the UK as a Protestant country. Incidentally, the only reason William went to Ireland was because James II fled there. William had zero interest in Ireland but the rest, as they say, is history. From 1st July 1916 it became a service for the Fallen at the battle of the Somme with over 2000 NI soldiers dying on the first day. Soldiers from all Ireland fought for England and those from the town are commemorated at that service and recorded on the war memorial in the centre of town. The Orangemen who attend that service of commemoration have traditionally walked back into town via that route. 28 years ago they were prevented from doing so because the residents of the road had become almost exclusively Catholic households. They were told that they could walk this year under certain conditions which they adhered to. I think one has to ask who gains most in power control over 'their' people' from them being prevented from completing a legal return to town. Divide and rule works across most of the world. It doesn't always deliver the best conditions and rights for its people.

Our politicians don't help.
Both unionist and Republican politicians support things they shouldn't, which are divisive. Instead of trying to sort problems that affect everyday life.

Shell951 its not true that catholics couldn't vote until 1969, but voting conditions and gerrymandering favoured unionists.

Yes I think those of us born and raised catholic with Irish ancestory have done our reading and research on the social history of Ireland to know civil rights were pivotal. Of course you have to let it go unless you happen to be of the disposition to hate the entire population of one country based on what their government were doing in the 19th century, when a majority of the population were disenfranchised and malnourished themselves anyway. Some do like to keep it all going though don't they? To be English, even though we're often a composite of other nationalities is to be forever in the wrong best not to forget that Thank goodness there's always someone to remind us of the inate evilness of the English character. So a big Mea Culpa from me on behalf of the nation. Hope that'll do it, for the time being at any rate.

It wasn't till I moved here that I became aware of the real history here, it wasn't taught in England, and I recently found out that catholics in N.I couldn't vote till 1969, I think before commenting research the history, and why when all was peaceful they started this march through Catholic areas, majority of people live happily together,
I still need to read more myself, but so far I am saddened to the core

paddyann54

Monica there was no famine it was a crop failure.Manipulated by the British government to rid the country of the poor who were in the main catholics.
There were boat loads of food leaving Ireland every day ..it just wasn,t for the poor.
The people who were desperate were offered food IF they denounced their religion and of course those who had money never went hungry.
Catholics in NI were treated as second class citizens right up until the 1970,s…
Maybe you should read the facts.
Some of my ancestors came here during the hunger time ,the last of my granny,s family came in 1972 because life for catholics was anything but equal.
It’s all documented and if you are interested it’s worth reading the truth .
The so called troubles was a civil rights issue !

I think we are all aware of Irish history.

I too am an Irish Catholic but you have to let it go!

I often thought at the time of the IRA bombing campaign in England, they may well have hated the English. Did ir not occur some of those English would have encompassed the children of Irish. Probably didn't care though. Many of my school friends were second generation Irish but as would be expected sounded English, one such friend two Irish parents, cut glass English accent. My mother told me, my grandmother's people from Ireland were Fenians and fiercly nationalistic. Still came over here though.

Monica there was no famine it was a crop failure.Manipulated by the British government to rid the country of the poor who were in the main catholics.
There were boat loads of food leaving Ireland every day ..it just wasn,t for the poor.
The people who were desperate were offered food IF they denounced their religion and of course those who had money never went hungry.
Catholics in NI were treated as second class citizens right up until the 1970,s…
Maybe you should read the facts.
Some of my ancestors came here during the hunger time ,the last of my granny,s family came in 1972 because life for catholics was anything but equal.
It’s all documented and if you are interested it’s worth reading the truth .
The so called troubles was a civil rights issue !

The point is we have had years of (mainly) peace.
What were they thinking?

In another 100 years it would probably be behind us and more like May day or Bonfire night (not meaning fireworks!).

nadateturbe

Sago

nadateturbe

The best solution would be for the protesters to go in, shut the door, ignore them, and let them have their little march, then we can get on with caring about important issues.

In NI it is an important issue.

Sago people have got their priorities wrong in NI. I live here, I know that if older people could just forget the past - both "sides" - the younger generations might have a better future. There are more important issues than a flipping border, flags, Irish language etc. Everyday problems are more important.
Perhaps these men shouldn't be allowed to march, but wouldn't it be simpler just to ignore them?

Unfortunately from both sides there is aggravation, the flags, the kerb stones etc.

The Orange marches are deliberately provocative.

I still find it hard to comprehend there are still barriers/peace gates on the Falls and Shankhill Rd areas.

It’s all very precarious.

I agree the past should be buried and forgotten but it’s so deep rooted, I don’t think it will ever happen.

My late Father (awful man) spoke Gaelic as his first language, lived and worked in England from the age of 30 and was die hard pro IRA, deep down he hated the English.

He was very highly educated but could never see the other side.

I think if he had gone back to live in Ireland he would have ended up in prison foe a terrorist crime.

M0nica

That's why my Irish ancestors left the country, that plus the famine.

Good decision.