Another appalling attack

So literally every time there is mention of an attack on Jewish people there are posters intent on diminishing the severity of this?

Oreo

We don’t….you remind us of it often enough.
It’s used tho, by many who seek to minimise the event of October 7th, which wasn’t the usual missiles/ car bombs/ cafe bombs by Palestinian activists and hamas members, but a wholesale slaughter of mainly sleeping Israelis who were unarmed.Over a thousand people, think of that! An unprovoked murderous sickening spree.Add to that the 200 hostages who were mainly murdered later.

Nobody is down playing, justifying, supporting, or forgetting what took place on Oct 7th.

It was indefensible, it should be remembered and condemned, just as the holocaust should never be forgotten.

However I understand what Casdon and Twaddle are saying, and Wyllow also.

IMO, and this is just a personal view, whilst I do subscribe to freedom to peacefully protest, and even though there are many Jews who don’t support what’s happening in Gaza, I think the organisers of the Palestinian protests should genuinely consider halting these protests, our of respect for the many Jewish communities in this country.

I’m guessing the “fear” is stopping protesting is a bit like “forgetting” what’s going on in Gaza, as many people appear to have done in Ukraine and Afganistan.

It’s a horrible tough, sometimes despicable and vile world we live in, solely down to (some) humans. ☹️

IMO, and this is just a personal view, whilst I do subscribe to freedom to peacefully protest, and even though there are many Jews who don’t support what’s happening in Gaza, I think the organisers of the Palestinian protests should genuinely consider halting these protests, our of respect for the many Jewish communities in this country.

We do have the right to peacefully protest in this country and it is because of our tolerance and our freedoms that Jewish people came here and why those who arrived under the Kindertransport scheme stayed here. Those children who came and who are still alive watch what is happening with fear, seeing parallels with what happened in their home countries before WW2.

The problem the Government has is finding a balance between the rights of some people to protest and the very real fears that these protests could cause a rise in anti-semitism with all the horrors that could bring about.

I agree, the protestors could call a halt or at least a pause.

ferry23

twaddle

Who are "all" these people?

What, "all" these people who don't know that other groups perished at the hands of the Nazis?

Or "all" these people who seem to be intent on diminishing the original sentiment?

If you mean the former, well I apologise, I mistakenly thought most people knew that the Nazis targeted other groups. Maybe not.

If the latter, well, I seriously don't have the time to go back through pages of posts and pick them all out. Too many to mention.

And good post Allira

I am torn over the protests ( and I loathe them) the right to protest is vital even if we disagree with the cause.

I think the answer might be that those of us who find them abhorrent should be more vocal and visible.

ferry23

twaddle

Who are "all" these people?

What, "all" these people who don't know that other groups perished at the hands of the Nazis?

Or "all" these people who seem to be intent on diminishing the original sentiment?

If you mean the former, well I apologise, I mistakenly thought most people knew that the Nazis targeted other groups. Maybe not.

If the latter, well, I seriously don't have the time to go back through pages of posts and pick them all out. Too many to mention.

No need to be quite so aggressive!! If you read your post, these weren't the people you were referring to as "all".

I was asking about this part of your post:

"You all seem intent to set out to diminish the original sentiment.

As you do every time a thread about attacks on Jews is posted."

You were addressing people on the thread and I was interested in knowing who you meant because I haven't seen anybody attacking the original sentiment.

I think the situation in Gaza is horrific, the West Bank entirely out of order, and has been forgotten in the light of major war operations over Iran.

I think protests are very valid but should be policed with very very clear boundaries and arrests made, etc.

It is very wrong imo for some opposition parties (well, conservatives and Reform) to call for the banning of these demonstrations.

The precedent it would be setting would be appalling.

Opening the door for future politicians in power to control our basic rights to protest in this country, hard won over centuries.

Strange, though, that there is a proliferation of Palestinian flags which are tolerated and cheered on the streets of Britain yet we are frowned on if we display our national flag.

We should be proud to be British, a people who are generally tolerant, without being accused of being followers of Farage and the thug Tommy Robinson.

They are cheered by a very vocal group, that doesn't mean they are cheered on the streets of Britain.
I feel much more anxious at the sight of a Palestinian flag than the union jack.

Hmmm. Maybe not if you lived in strong Reform territory as DS and family do in parts off their county. Lines of both union jack and England flags along the roads of the terraced houses of villages and small towns, flapping outside peoples windows whether they like or not, no one dare take them down.

Grandchildren having to go past them everyday to school.

Where do you live that you live in fear of a Palestinian flag?

I had never seen either Palestinian flags nor Union Jacks flying in public until a couple of months ago. I had the misfortune to have to visit a town with dirty, torn Union Jacks flying from nearly all the town centre lamp posts. They looked awful. Not only that, but I knew very well what they represented to the people who had hung them and I felt intimidated to be in such a place. I might very well feel the same if I saw Palestinian flags festooned like that, but I never have. As far as I know, the only time there are hundreds of them flown in public is during marches. They aren't a permanent fixture.

What's scary about the UK's national flag or England's national flag? They're bits of printed fabric just the same as any other flag, including the Palestinian one.

We should be proud to be British, a people who are generally tolerant well we must do something right since we attract a wide range of people that want to come to the UK to live. If we were so awful surely they'd not want to come here?

As far as I know, the only time there are hundreds of them flown in public is during marches.

twaddle do you think if you were Jewish that the Palestinian flags and accompanying placards might be a source of fear to you, even if they're not a permanent fixture? Might they not represent a type of people?

Do you object to any other national flags being flown or is it just those of England and the UK?

I've never seen any other national flag flown in that number. I'm not going to hide how they made me feel. I'm so glad I don't live in that town and have neighbours who would allow the flags to be flown. Presumably the place was targeted for a reason.

Rosie51

What's scary about the UK's national flag or England's national flag? They're bits of printed fabric just the same as any other flag, including the Palestinian one.

We should be proud to be British, a people who are generally tolerant well we must do something right since we attract a wide range of people that want to come to the UK to live. If we were so awful surely they'd not want to come here?

What is scary is what they mean to the people who went to so much trouble to fly them. And you would have to live in a cave if you haven't seen the placards, banners and social media posts of the people behind them. I just hope I never live in a country where people with those kind of views have any significant control.

A lot of people didn't have the choice, twaddle. It's in chunks of Co Durham, currently under Reform. And yes, many now hang limply and weather damaged and just look disgusting, but if they are outside your front bedroom window and you don''t want then but some neighbours do, then you keep your mouth shut, because 2 men trying to take them down were attacked.

Flags are symbols, and symbols change their meaning depending on how they are used. It's disgraceful to me its allowed there like near my family:

because I feel its an insult to the real meaning, which is a shared identity, such as one might see for example at the Olympic Games, or national flags flying in rows outside the UN, or other respected traditions shared by all.

In my city if they appear like this they are removed:

What people fly on their own property it is their own business.

I know they don't have a choice and I feel sorry for them.

I know somebody who lives somewhere like that who happens to have dark skin. She doesn't even like to leave her house because she's frightened it could be firebombed and that she might be attacked in the street. She's desperate to move, but can't afford it.

twaddle

Rosie51

What's scary about the UK's national flag or England's national flag? They're bits of printed fabric just the same as any other flag, including the Palestinian one.

We should be proud to be British, a people who are generally tolerant well we must do something right since we attract a wide range of people that want to come to the UK to live. If we were so awful surely they'd not want to come here?

What is scary is what they mean to the people who went to so much trouble to fly them. And you would have to live in a cave if you haven't seen the placards, banners and social media posts of the people behind them. I just hope I never live in a country where people with those kind of views have any significant control.

So a minority hijack a flag and you endorse their right to do that instead of saying no that flag belongs to the English or in the case of the Union Flag the UK? The majority have to lose their flag because you're too weak to challenge the flag's use and reclaim it for proud Britons.

Wyllow and twaddle is it only the UK flags that you find intimidating? Do you have sympathy for those that find Palestinian flags and threatening placards intimidating? What about women who are fearful of the trans flag (not the rainbow Pride flag) and the placard threats to women who are sex realists?

Charming!

I'm too weak? Ha ha ha!

I am challenging it on here and just look what happens!

Presumably, in your world, I am entitled to have feelings and opinions. I'm expressing them here, although I haven't written what I really think of the people and values behind the tatty little flags.

Signed

A Proud Brit (whose values don't coincide with flag wavers)

PS. What's a sex realist? (I might be one, for all you or I know!)

I think the overriding feeling about the abundance of flags, banners or placards for many people, is fear. Fear of what could potentially happen if things were to get out of control.

Yet, Jewish people in our country live with fear every day of their lives. And it's a fear that couldn't be brought any closer to home.

I used to work alongside a Jewish lady, (London), and at "going home" time I could put my coat on and walk out with no anxieties. She, however, spent the last 40 minutes or so of the day on her phone, desperately ensuring that her teenage children would reach home safely from their Jewish school on their own. These children had to remain in contact every five minutes and avoid certain routes where they might encounter difficulties. They had to report that they were safely inside when they arrived home.

What life is that for those innocent souls in our safe country? And that was before 2023. Whole families living in terror every day, anticipating that something awful might happen to them.

I don't think any other people have to put up with anything as frightening as that.

What about women who are fearful of the trans flag (not the rainbow Pride flag) and the placard threats to women who are sex realists?

Who are these people? I don't understand a word of this.

It's quite clear. The trans flag and anti 'terf' placards are very upsetting.

Are only certain people allowed to be uneasy about certain flags.
I am uncomfortable about the Palestinian flag and the pride flags ( I know many many lesbians who are deeply uneasy about the pride flag). I live in county durham wyllow. When I see the flags because I know the area really well, i understand that the area is one of high deprivation.

If the marches are to continue, they need some responsible people among their numbers who monitor and oversee the throng to make sure they do not hold any anti Jewish placards that inflame hatred against our Jewish population. Prosecutions against those who do that should be mandatory instead of a slap on the wrist that has certainly happened previously. The two women who had something provocative pinned on their backs relating to the October 7th massacre for example.