Another appalling attack

Oreo

Casdon

eazybee

when there is conflict in the Middle East, antisemitism increases. That is a reality, which can’t be denied.

Was this responsible for the Holocaust?

I’d assumed that you had read the thread. For clarity, this was a post I made earlier today.
‘It’s much more complicated than only Islamic extremists Oreo, I’m sure you’re aware that antisemitic violence is perpetrated by extremists across the political spectrum.’

As a British Jew Casdon I can tell you that I know exactly where the most antisemitism comes from in this country of ours.
And it isn’t Tommy Robinson and his supporters, strangely enough.

I didn’t say it was Oreo, I’m not negating your experience, but you are putting words in my mouth?

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Oreo

Casdon

eazybee

when there is conflict in the Middle East, antisemitism increases. That is a reality, which can’t be denied.

Was this responsible for the Holocaust?

I’d assumed that you had read the thread. For clarity, this was a post I made earlier today.
‘It’s much more complicated than only Islamic extremists Oreo, I’m sure you’re aware that antisemitic violence is perpetrated by extremists across the political spectrum.’

As a British Jew Casdon I can tell you that I know exactly where the most antisemitism comes from in this country of ours.
And it isn’t Tommy Robinson and his supporters, strangely enough.

I'm sure you're also aware that antisemitism has existed since long before Tommy Robinson was born or more than a handful of Muslims ever lived in the UK (if that's what you're implying).

The causes of antisemitism in Europe and throughout the Middle East are complex, as I'm sure you must know. There's no point blaming a single perpetrator (or group) because there isn't one.

Iam64

Skodadoda

Silvergirl

That is why it is so sad that the lovely, peaceful British Jewish community are having to pay for what that murderous, bloodthirsty man Netanyahu is doing in Gaza and Lebanon. You can deny it all you want but there is a link between this and the rise in antisemitism. That is the reality! Any solution will have to take this into account

You are right!

It’s a recurrent theme here, blaming British Jews for the actions of Netanyahu
I’ve seen no one blaming ritish Muslims for the 7 October attack, or the murders at our Manchester synogigue. Seen no suggestion that our Muslim communities shoukd dress “in a less Muslim looking way “

Sorry, but I'm afraid I have seen it - and you don't have to look that far!

Incidentally, as far as this latest attack is concerned, it appears the attacker lived in supported accommodation for people with mental health issues. Before the attacks in Golders Green, he had attacked somebody he knew (a Muslim), so goodness knows what was going on inside his head or motivated him.

The attacker's mental health issues are very real.
Somewhere along the line there were real failings in his care.

BUT that doesn't explain why he spent an hour travelling to Golders Green, a very Jewish area of London that has been the focus of antisemitism in the country over recent times. The answer is glaringly obvious - antisemitism is rife, is being whipped up and is rapidly increasing.

Personally, I'm not that interested in him as an individual, or what's going on his head. The real focus should be on the victims, on the Jewish communities in our country and what can be done to change the way things are.

Thank you for the courteous responses to my genuine question about the Holocaust. Every time I hear of an attack on 'Jewishness', in whatever form, the Holocaust is the spectre which haunts me, and the way in which it swept through and demonised an apparently civilised country.

I think it is actually important to understand the profile of anybody who attacks others, because such attacks are a symptom of failings if somebody is already known to the police and/or mental health services. Not all attacks are preventable, but they often highlight issues that can be put right.

eazybee

Thank you for the courteous responses to my genuine question about the Holocaust. Every time I hear of an attack on 'Jewishness', in whatever form, the Holocaust is the spectre which haunts me, and the way in which it swept through and demonised an apparently civilised country.

Me too. When people are attacked and vilified just because of their race (or country of origin if anyone prefers), religion or skin colour, my thoughts immediately go to the Holocaust too. It makes my blood run cold.

Casdon

I think it is actually important to understand the profile of anybody who attacks others, because such attacks are a symptom of failings if somebody is already known to the police and/or mental health services. Not all attacks are preventable, but they often highlight issues that can be put right.

That's as maybe, and I do acknowledge the importance of having investigations about the mental health of the attacker. But why was this labelled a terrorist incident then? Why was there a Cobra meeting then? Why was £25m given for the protection of the Jewish community? Why is the UK's terror threat level increased to “severe” after these stabbings?
It's more than just the mental health issues of one person, it's an ideology running wild. The police and the government know this.

Seems strange how the press and tv ignored the fact that this person actually attacked THREE people (not just the two reported). The first victim was a Muslim, so obviously did not fit the scenario of terrorist anti-semitism that has been headlines.

It does appear that these attacks are the result of a mental health issue and perhaps instead of that money going to policing, it should go to the local mental health team to try to prevent further problems.

Would it not be more sensible for religious people of all faiths to stop wearing ostentatiously religious clothing.

Why go about in public wearing uniforms that declare which side one is on. Religions are divisive enough without flaunting the differences.

Caleo

Would it not be more sensible for religious people of all faiths to stop wearing ostentatiously religious clothing.

Why go about in public wearing uniforms that declare which side one is on. Religions are divisive enough without flaunting the differences.

I think you are on very shaky ground here, although I see your point.

Franbern

Seems strange how the press and tv ignored the fact that this person actually attacked THREE people (not just the two reported). The first victim was a Muslim, so obviously did not fit the scenario of terrorist anti-semitism that has been headlines.

It does appear that these attacks are the result of a mental health issue and perhaps instead of that money going to policing, it should go to the local mental health team to try to prevent further problems.

I think the fiest victim WAS reported on by the press on Day 1. I think a poster on here, Casdon ?? mentioned it?

* first not fiest

Well that's the French way, particularly in schools, no visible signs of religious symbolism. I'm not sure that's taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut and I think that approach would stir up even greater discontent, it's such a blanket approach to cultural identity , Sikhs and turbans for example, that are a crucial part of their beliefs.

Why should religious people be expected to hide their faith.. isn’t the point that we need to find better ways to prevent prejudice and bigotry. And improve mental health services

Franbern

Seems strange how the press and tv ignored the fact that this person actually attacked THREE people (not just the two reported). The first victim was a Muslim, so obviously did not fit the scenario of terrorist anti-semitism that has been headlines.

It does appear that these attacks are the result of a mental health issue and perhaps instead of that money going to policing, it should go to the local mental health team to try to prevent further problems.

Exactly. Proper funding needs to be channelled to the root cause. Mental health is woefully underfunded and we see the results of that on a worryingly more frequent basis.
As much as I liked Margaret Thatcher, one of her worst decisions was to close mental health institutions and introduce 'Care in the Community'. It was a failure in many ways because the communities were not adequately prepared for it and patients who had become institutionalised were no longer properly cared for in a secure environment. We reap what we sow.

" Mental health services" What a joke. You are on your own.

An attack on another person was reported but initially they were not sure whether it was the same attacker and waited to confirm it.

The Muslim man who was attacked first was known to the attacker for many years.
He then actively looked for Jews after travelling to Golders Green.
At long last the government and police are taking much needed action ( unless it’s all talk ) on antisemitism, the police are pushing for it so the government will have to act.

A good start would be banning any hate marches by any group.

In a survey, 1 in 6 young people in the UK don’t believe in the Holocaust.
The survey doesn’t mention the religion/ lack of or nationality or ethnicity of participants.

Franbern

Seems strange how the press and tv ignored the fact that this person actually attacked THREE people (not just the two reported). The first victim was a Muslim, so obviously did not fit the scenario of terrorist anti-semitism that has been headlines.

It does appear that these attacks are the result of a mental health issue and perhaps instead of that money going to policing, it should go to the local mental health team to try to prevent further problems.

It was reported.
This man was known to have been helped for MH problems and had been reported to the Prevent team, more than once.
He does, MH problems not withstanding, fit the scenario of terror related crime.

HummusAndToast

I would just like to chime in and remind everyone that the entire Israeli-Palestine conflict began precisely on October 7th, when Hamas unprovokedly attacked poor innocent Israel for no good reason whatsoever.

Carry on.

Hamas had reason but insufficient reason for its violent reprisal. West Bank settlers had continuously stolen land and water supplies from Palestinian neighbours , ever since Israel was established.

The softly softly approach to Muslim extremism in this country hasn’t worked and has led to what we now have.Things will need to change starting right now with banning or corralling the usual hate marches that have gone virtually unchecked for several years.