Former Prince Andrew has just been arrested in Norfolk

Oreo - here’s a link to a BBC article from 2011 when he was sacked. If you read it, you’ll see just how much was known about him nearly 15 years ago. And therefore how senior royals knew as well but circled the wagons

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12663378?app-referrer=deep-link

I agree with that Maremia so it’s good that there aren’t attempts to close down a narrative.
Nobody thinks AMW is a nice guy and all want him to answer any charges which is now under way.

Oreo

Am not so sure about that Tuliptree as you seem to have made your mind up already.

This is getting boring

Labradora

Silvershadow

Gordon Brown has given a five page summary to all the police about what he knows. Gordon Brown for heavens sake. He’d be unlikely to put his head above the parapet unnecessarily surely.

Is Gordon Brown after Mandelson ? I thought that he was. GB managed the 2008 financial crisis and was outraged, I thought , that Mandelson was busy overseas somehow undermining that.

He has provided two statements I think, one about Mandelson, one about what he knew about trafficking related to Andrew. If there is a relationship between Mandelson and Andrew that we are currently unaware of, and as far as I know there is nothing in the press about that yet, presumably it will come out as a result of the seizures of materials made at their homes.

I do think that it’s quite unusual for people to keep such meticulous records of their doings as Epstein did though. Certainly if anybody tried to find what I was doing twenty years ago online it would be a struggle as I wipe my emails periodically, I don’t keeep incidental conversations, and I doubt if most other people do.

I read about it at the time Tuliptree there were always concerns for years about his unsuitability for the role.In my view they allowed him to go on far too long.
Time will tell if real criminality was involved and if it was then he’ll be convicted.

Casdon - there has certainly been an allegation that he kept records to give him control over prople and possibly blackmail. I’ll use PM as an example as he’s not been arrested yet- JE has photo of him in his y/ fronts ( yes I know yuk) then he asks PM for dome confidential financial information - see how that allegedly might work?

Oreo

I read about it at the time Tuliptree there were always concerns for years about his unsuitability for the role.In my view they allowed him to go on far too long.
Time will tell if real criminality was involved and if it was then he’ll be convicted.

Some swerve there Oreo - I must say I admire your tenacity

I was referring to the records that Mandelson and Andrew may not have retained Tuliptree. I doubt if emails and files from their old laptops etc would still exist from twenty odd years ago if they were deleted subsequently. If there are any computer buffs, maybe they can confirm one way or the other.

I can’t say I admire yours * Tuliptree*

Oreo

I can’t say I admire yours * Tuliptree*

I’d be worried if you did - I’m quite particular about who admires me, whatever quality it is they are admiring

If the computers or laptops are still there then the files can be got at I think, but it’s more than likely they were destroyed.
It is really strange that Epstein did keep emails for so long, the only reason is that he was a control freak and he regarded them as having power.

Casdon

I was referring to the records that Mandelson and Andrew may not have retained Tuliptree. I doubt if emails and files from their old laptops etc would still exist from twenty odd years ago if they were deleted subsequently. If there are any computer buffs, maybe they can confirm one way or the other.

Oh I see - but their records aren’t needed are they? If JE has them and a forensic computer team will be able to vetify them, that’s all that’s needed?

I don’t go in for spats Tuliptree so you’ll have to find someone else.

Oreo

I don’t go in for spats Tuliptree so you’ll have to find someone else.

Now that really made me laugh 😂

I agree with the theory that Epstein kept correspondence for blackmail opportunities.

It’s surprising that he kept so many tho.I would have thought he may have printed out the ones he really wanted for those purposes and deleted the rest.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Tuliptree

Oh Molly you’ve cut me to the quick. I really only dismiss things as silly that are, well you know, silly.

No. You tried to close down a discussion when you did not agree. I agree that what you did was silly if you choose to use that expression.

Tuliptree

Casdon

I was referring to the records that Mandelson and Andrew may not have retained Tuliptree. I doubt if emails and files from their old laptops etc would still exist from twenty odd years ago if they were deleted subsequently. If there are any computer buffs, maybe they can confirm one way or the other.

Oh I see - but their records aren’t needed are they? If JE has them and a forensic computer team will be able to vetify them, that’s all that’s needed?

I think if they do exist, they may well show more than just the links to Epstein, interactions between Mandelson and Andrew, or direct contact with others who are involved. At the moment we only have Epstein’s own dealings.

Why has it taken Gordon Brown so many years to come out and say he knew about girls/women being trafficked through Stanstead Airport 🤷‍♀️

I suspect he had half a story without any proof, because he said that he had pieced together what he had found through trawling the Epstein files evidence, and apparently his statement was his conclusion using both what he already knew and the new details.

Casdon

I suspect he had half a story without any proof, because he said that he had pieced together what he had found through trawling the Epstein files evidence, and apparently his statement was his conclusion using both what he already knew and the new details.

Yes, it is the Epstein files that GB used to confirm his suspicions .

Casdon, Oreo, Wealthy businessmen, whether corporate or self employed, do keep extemsive records and always have. Very little is thrown out. Nowadays when everything is on line even more is kept. Remember even when emails are deleted they can still be rescued from the hard disk by any competent computer buff..

When I worked on the edge of a Chairman's office, in the days before computers. his secretary told me that he kept every work diary he had going back over 20 years, so that he could, if necessary, check on who he met, where and when, right back to the start of his career. This was someone who had, as far as I know, a blameless corporate career.

Police keep their notebooks. That’s an interesting thought

I know business people do M0nica, for their work. Where I worked, it was archived too. I don’t think that’s what we’re talking about here though, this is the personal contact, under the radar type conversations, more likely to have been done on personal email accounts. It’s possible that Stern has copies, we don’t know what Andrew shared with him - but Mandelson is not a stupid man, and did not have a factotum, so I’d bet his personal stuff is long gone.