In view of the certainty on the media including GN that family members, and those in close contact with a person must know of any wrong doing, is anyone on here certain that Nicola Sturgeon knew all about Peter Morrell’s actions?
Or is she allowed to be innocent until she is actually accused?
I think you’ve misunderstood what I meant butterandjam. She would have known that the SNP books included the purchase of a motorhome I assume. What we don’t know, as far as I’m aware, is if she knew that Murrell had transferred the ownership to his own name?
I remember the police taking away boxes and boxes of files from Murrell's home and also SNP HQ and searching for memory sticks. Obviously a forensic search through masses of docs.
Suspicious but not surprising that the court date is postponed till after the election. It all stinks.
Aveline
I remember the police taking away boxes and boxes of files from Murrell's home and also SNP HQ and searching for memory sticks. Obviously a forensic search through masses of docs.
Suspicious but not surprising that the court date is postponed till after the election. It all stinks.
No it doesn’t stink. There are lots of rules about what happens during an election period and I expect they think this trial may well last into that period. It’s about fairness and the democratic process.
I am disappoited that paddyanne has not been able to contribute more to this thread.
I think paddyann has a point to be fair. Someone compared this to the Royals, that did make me laugh. The Royals paying millions to someone they allegedly never met, dodgy deals in Kazakhstan, friends with a Chinese spy, I could go on but Andrew Lownie covers the whole sordid Royal family's covering up of Andrew and Fergie's disgusting behaviour. In addition Andrew and Mandleson used our money, the taxpayer The royals are billionaires but keep sponging of us, the great British taxpayers. If these allegations are true then it is the SNP membership who should hold him accountable. I am not an SNP member so this does not affect me personally however the amount of taxpayers money squandered by the royals certainly does affect me and the more information that comes out the worse it is for the royals. Sex trafficking at Buckingham Palace, young Russian girls, where were the CPO, MI5, MI6. Peter Murrell is sadly not in their league of criminality.
Casdon
I don’t know. It was over a 12 year period, so it averaged between £35–40k a year. Would it be possible to appear to be a better money manager than you were and not tell your partner? Was another woman involved? Did you control the family finances? Would you say a car was on a contract when you paid for it outright? I know somebody whose husband ran up hundreds of thousands in gambling debts and she had no idea, so unless we are told more I can’t condemn or exonerate Nicola Sturgeon.
My thoughts exactly Casdon.
To state that NS has had a lot on her plate( being Scotland's PM the whole time)over the last twelve years especially during Covid and afterwards is to slightly understate the case.
The Camper Van could have been presented as a campaigning Battlebus and the cars as being leased ( as very many are these days). Plus you're not supervising someone that you trust and who presumably earned a reasonable salary ( together they must have been doing OK).
Moreover who could ever have possibly imagined that someone would ditch what I imagine were two unimpeachable records of integrity so cheaply?
It wasn't even a clever fraud from what I've read. It was obvious low-level rubbish( false invoices etc).
My money is on Nicola's innocence. I sure hope so.
Labradora
Casdon
I don’t know. It was over a 12 year period, so it averaged between £35–40k a year. Would it be possible to appear to be a better money manager than you were and not tell your partner? Was another woman involved? Did you control the family finances? Would you say a car was on a contract when you paid for it outright? I know somebody whose husband ran up hundreds of thousands in gambling debts and she had no idea, so unless we are told more I can’t condemn or exonerate Nicola Sturgeon.
My thoughts exactly Casdon.
To state that NS has had a lot on her plate( being Scotland's PM the whole time)over the last twelve years especially during Covid and afterwards is to slightly understate the case.
The Camper Van could have been presented as a campaigning Battlebus and the cars as being leased ( as very many are these days). Plus you're not supervising someone that you trust and who presumably earned a reasonable salary ( together they must have been doing OK).
Moreover who could ever have possibly imagined that someone would ditch what I imagine were two unimpeachable records of integrity so cheaply?
It wasn't even a clever fraud from what I've read. It was obvious low-level rubbish( false invoices etc).
My money is on Nicola's innocence. I sure hope so.
I hope so too, Labradora. I would be so disappointed in her. She has made a number of appearances recently, appearing more happy and relaxed than in many years, so I feel surely she wouldn’t be like that if she was waiting for very damaging stuff to surface, but, who knows?
She hasn't bothered to represent her constituency at Holyrood anyway. How nice for her to be happy and relaxed on full pay.
When someone mentions campervan, it conjures up a picture of something like the old VW campervan as in the first picture to me. 😀
It was not at all like that, it was an extremely luxurious motorhome.
Allira
When someone mentions campervan, it conjures up a picture of something like the old VW campervan as in the first picture to me. 😀
It was not at all like that, it was an extremely luxurious motorhome.
My mistake to use the word " Campervan" I realised that it was a large motorhome suitable to be a political campaign Battlebus and should have used the words " Large Motorholm".
Labradora
Allira
When someone mentions campervan, it conjures up a picture of something like the old VW campervan as in the first picture to me. 😀
It was not at all like that, it was an extremely luxurious motorhome.My mistake to use the word " Campervan" I realised that it was a large motorhome suitable to be a political campaign Battlebus and should have used the words " Large Motorholm".
It's ok, the old VW campervans were iconic!!
That large motorhome doesn't seem to have done much battling though.
SillyOma
I think paddyann has a point to be fair. Someone compared this to the Royals, that did make me laugh. The Royals paying millions to someone they allegedly never met, dodgy deals in Kazakhstan, friends with a Chinese spy, I could go on but Andrew Lownie covers the whole sordid Royal family's covering up of Andrew and Fergie's disgusting behaviour. In addition Andrew and Mandleson used our money, the taxpayer The royals are billionaires but keep sponging of us, the great British taxpayers. If these allegations are true then it is the SNP membership who should hold him accountable. I am not an SNP member so this does not affect me personally however the amount of taxpayers money squandered by the royals certainly does affect me and the more information that comes out the worse it is for the royals. Sex trafficking at Buckingham Palace, young Russian girls, where were the CPO, MI5, MI6. Peter Murrell is sadly not in their league of criminality.
I imagine that Murrell was suspected by members of the SNP, or their accountants, and was then reported to the police. Suggesting the SNP should deal with a criminal matter themselves is ridiculous, it would be a cover up and they would be incriminating themselves, or do you think that's how political parties should be allowed to act.
Your last statement is very odd, why do you think it's sad that Murrell isn't in a bigger league of criminality.
@Labradora
To state that NS has had a lot on her plate( being Scotland's PM the whole time)over the last twelve years especially during Covid and afterwards is to slightly understate the case.
The case is not as you say.
In Scotland, the title is First Minister, not PM. Nicola Sturgeon was FM from November 2014 to February 2023.
8 years as FM not 12.
PM was Chief Executive of the SNP from 2001 to 2023.
They married in 2010, and the charges against PMurrell of embezzlement of SNP funds date from 2010, including purchases of jewellery, cosmetics, luxury goods, shoes and three vehicles.
I would think it's highly likely Sturgeon will be called as a witness against Murrell.
SillyOma
I think paddyann has a point to be fair. Someone compared this to the Royals, that did make me laugh. The Royals paying millions to someone they allegedly never met, dodgy deals in Kazakhstan, friends with a Chinese spy, I could go on but Andrew Lownie covers the whole sordid Royal family's covering up of Andrew and Fergie's disgusting behaviour. In addition Andrew and Mandleson used our money, the taxpayer The royals are billionaires but keep sponging of us, the great British taxpayers. If these allegations are true then it is the SNP membership who should hold him accountable. I am not an SNP member so this does not affect me personally however the amount of taxpayers money squandered by the royals certainly does affect me and the more information that comes out the worse it is for the royals. Sex trafficking at Buckingham Palace, young Russian girls, where were the CPO, MI5, MI6. Peter Murrell is sadly not in their league of criminality.
The problem with the Royal family is that Prince Andrew is and always has been the weak link in the family, together with his ex-wife. But people forget that the members of the Royal family are normal humans with all the love and loyalty between each other that we experience.
I think the rsponse of any family when they find themselves with a blacksheep, is to protect them, buy them out of trouble, insist they are really loveable kind people. Read any media source any day. Someone will have committed an atrocious crime but their mother or father will be there ssaying what a lovely boy they really are, that there prison sentence leaves their children fatherless etcetc.
That Andrew's behaviour went beyond reasonable bounds came out, literally in the dying years of the late ueen's reign. I understood that she was already not in good health, and, if , as is always said, Andrew was her favourite child one can see so clearly, why Virgina Giuffre shoulb be bought off, and the whole thing downplayed.
The release of the Epstein papers changed that. I was surprised when the King came down like a ton of bricks last Autumn, removing Andrew's titles, banishing him to Siberia Sandringam. I think the RF had advanced warning of what the Epstein files contained and the King and Prince William decided that enough was enough, Andrew's behaviour far passed anything acceptable and he needed to hung to dry, which of course he has been.
What else would any family have done in the situation?
Monica
What else would any family have done in the situation?
Good point M0nica.
Hard to know unless we have experienced that.
One quite common reaction is to avoid publicity by the family involved. Think of all the murders, rapes, and other crimes that take place daily.
How little do you hear about the families of the perpetrators, not just when he/she is accused, but even after they’re convicted.
Public figure families and connections don't have that luxury, but instead the digging starts in search of anything that can be dragged up, and chewed over, even if the source is hearsay and not related to the crime in question.
(I expect the usual excuses about it being the RF and we pay for them. )
butterandjam
@Labradora
To state that NS has had a lot on her plate( being Scotland's PM the whole time)over the last twelve years especially during Covid and afterwards is to slightly understate the case.
The case is not as you say.
In Scotland, the title is First Minister, not PM. Nicola Sturgeon was FM from November 2014 to February 2023.
8 years as FM not 12.
PM was Chief Executive of the SNP from 2001 to 2023.
They married in 2010, and the charges against PMurrell of embezzlement of SNP funds date from 2010, including purchases of jewellery, cosmetics, luxury goods, shoes and three vehicles.
I'm aware that Scotland does "First Minister" not "Prime Minister";
I deliberately used the term PM because I believe that being FM brings many of the same heavy burdens and responsibilities as the UK PM. For example NS did the Scottish Covid Broadcasts and UPdates just as Bojo did.
It's got to be a heavy, responsible job. That's my point.
What else would any family have done?
MOnica is correct in summarising most families try to support their wayward relative. It goes on for years, often from adolescence so there’s always the hope ‘X will grow up and settle down’.
When X continues to live wild, edge of crime, excess drugs and alcohol, shouts and rages, lies and more lies, when challenged about their behaviour, the endless bailing out etc, most families will back off. Their own resources get exhausted. Not only the ‘difficult’ family member has mental health in need of care.
Maybe the King, William and their wives have had enough on a personal level. Then, there’s The Firm to consider. I’m sure the King had advance knowledge of the increasingly serious information about his brother
Apologies - my comments are about the RF
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