Apologies - my comments are about the RF
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Peter Murrell
(70 Posts)In view of the certainty on the media including GN that family members, and those in close contact with a person must know of any wrong doing, is anyone on here certain that Nicola Sturgeon knew all about Peter Morrell’s actions?
Or is she allowed to be innocent until she is actually accused?
What else would any family have done?
MOnica is correct in summarising most families try to support their wayward relative. It goes on for years, often from adolescence so there’s always the hope ‘X will grow up and settle down’.
When X continues to live wild, edge of crime, excess drugs and alcohol, shouts and rages, lies and more lies, when challenged about their behaviour, the endless bailing out etc, most families will back off. Their own resources get exhausted. Not only the ‘difficult’ family member has mental health in need of care.
Maybe the King, William and their wives have had enough on a personal level. Then, there’s The Firm to consider. I’m sure the King had advance knowledge of the increasingly serious information about his brother
butterandjam
@Labradora
To state that NS has had a lot on her plate( being Scotland's PM the whole time)over the last twelve years especially during Covid and afterwards is to slightly understate the case.
The case is not as you say.
In Scotland, the title is First Minister, not PM. Nicola Sturgeon was FM from November 2014 to February 2023.
8 years as FM not 12.
PM was Chief Executive of the SNP from 2001 to 2023.
They married in 2010, and the charges against PMurrell of embezzlement of SNP funds date from 2010, including purchases of jewellery, cosmetics, luxury goods, shoes and three vehicles.
I'm aware that Scotland does "First Minister" not "Prime Minister";
I deliberately used the term PM because I believe that being FM brings many of the same heavy burdens and responsibilities as the UK PM. For example NS did the Scottish Covid Broadcasts and UPdates just as Bojo did.
It's got to be a heavy, responsible job. That's my point.
Monica
What else would any family have done in the situation?
Good point M0nica.
Hard to know unless we have experienced that.
One quite common reaction is to avoid publicity by the family involved. Think of all the murders, rapes, and other crimes that take place daily.
How little do you hear about the families of the perpetrators, not just when he/she is accused, but even after they’re convicted.
Public figure families and connections don't have that luxury, but instead the digging starts in search of anything that can be dragged up, and chewed over, even if the source is hearsay and not related to the crime in question.
(I expect the usual excuses about it being the RF and we pay for them. )
SillyOma
I think paddyann has a point to be fair. Someone compared this to the Royals, that did make me laugh. The Royals paying millions to someone they allegedly never met, dodgy deals in Kazakhstan, friends with a Chinese spy, I could go on but Andrew Lownie covers the whole sordid Royal family's covering up of Andrew and Fergie's disgusting behaviour. In addition Andrew and Mandleson used our money, the taxpayer The royals are billionaires but keep sponging of us, the great British taxpayers. If these allegations are true then it is the SNP membership who should hold him accountable. I am not an SNP member so this does not affect me personally however the amount of taxpayers money squandered by the royals certainly does affect me and the more information that comes out the worse it is for the royals. Sex trafficking at Buckingham Palace, young Russian girls, where were the CPO, MI5, MI6. Peter Murrell is sadly not in their league of criminality.
The problem with the Royal family is that Prince Andrew is and always has been the weak link in the family, together with his ex-wife. But people forget that the members of the Royal family are normal humans with all the love and loyalty between each other that we experience.
I think the rsponse of any family when they find themselves with a blacksheep, is to protect them, buy them out of trouble, insist they are really loveable kind people. Read any media source any day. Someone will have committed an atrocious crime but their mother or father will be there ssaying what a lovely boy they really are, that there prison sentence leaves their children fatherless etcetc.
That Andrew's behaviour went beyond reasonable bounds came out, literally in the dying years of the late ueen's reign. I understood that she was already not in good health, and, if , as is always said, Andrew was her favourite child one can see so clearly, why Virgina Giuffre shoulb be bought off, and the whole thing downplayed.
The release of the Epstein papers changed that. I was surprised when the King came down like a ton of bricks last Autumn, removing Andrew's titles, banishing him to Siberia Sandringam. I think the RF had advanced warning of what the Epstein files contained and the King and Prince William decided that enough was enough, Andrew's behaviour far passed anything acceptable and he needed to hung to dry, which of course he has been.
What else would any family have done in the situation?
I would think it's highly likely Sturgeon will be called as a witness against Murrell.
@Labradora
To state that NS has had a lot on her plate( being Scotland's PM the whole time)over the last twelve years especially during Covid and afterwards is to slightly understate the case.
The case is not as you say.
In Scotland, the title is First Minister, not PM. Nicola Sturgeon was FM from November 2014 to February 2023.
8 years as FM not 12.
PM was Chief Executive of the SNP from 2001 to 2023.
They married in 2010, and the charges against PMurrell of embezzlement of SNP funds date from 2010, including purchases of jewellery, cosmetics, luxury goods, shoes and three vehicles.
SillyOma
I think paddyann has a point to be fair. Someone compared this to the Royals, that did make me laugh. The Royals paying millions to someone they allegedly never met, dodgy deals in Kazakhstan, friends with a Chinese spy, I could go on but Andrew Lownie covers the whole sordid Royal family's covering up of Andrew and Fergie's disgusting behaviour. In addition Andrew and Mandleson used our money, the taxpayer The royals are billionaires but keep sponging of us, the great British taxpayers. If these allegations are true then it is the SNP membership who should hold him accountable. I am not an SNP member so this does not affect me personally however the amount of taxpayers money squandered by the royals certainly does affect me and the more information that comes out the worse it is for the royals. Sex trafficking at Buckingham Palace, young Russian girls, where were the CPO, MI5, MI6. Peter Murrell is sadly not in their league of criminality.
I imagine that Murrell was suspected by members of the SNP, or their accountants, and was then reported to the police. Suggesting the SNP should deal with a criminal matter themselves is ridiculous, it would be a cover up and they would be incriminating themselves, or do you think that's how political parties should be allowed to act.
Your last statement is very odd, why do you think it's sad that Murrell isn't in a bigger league of criminality.
Labradora
Allira
When someone mentions campervan, it conjures up a picture of something like the old VW campervan as in the first picture to me. 😀
It was not at all like that, it was an extremely luxurious motorhome.My mistake to use the word " Campervan" I realised that it was a large motorhome suitable to be a political campaign Battlebus and should have used the words " Large Motorholm".
It's ok, the old VW campervans were iconic!!
That large motorhome doesn't seem to have done much battling though.
Allira
When someone mentions campervan, it conjures up a picture of something like the old VW campervan as in the first picture to me. 😀
It was not at all like that, it was an extremely luxurious motorhome.
My mistake to use the word " Campervan" I realised that it was a large motorhome suitable to be a political campaign Battlebus and should have used the words " Large Motorholm".
When someone mentions campervan, it conjures up a picture of something like the old VW campervan as in the first picture to me. 😀
It was not at all like that, it was an extremely luxurious motorhome.
She hasn't bothered to represent her constituency at Holyrood anyway. How nice for her to be happy and relaxed on full pay.
Labradora
Casdon
I don’t know. It was over a 12 year period, so it averaged between £35–40k a year. Would it be possible to appear to be a better money manager than you were and not tell your partner? Was another woman involved? Did you control the family finances? Would you say a car was on a contract when you paid for it outright? I know somebody whose husband ran up hundreds of thousands in gambling debts and she had no idea, so unless we are told more I can’t condemn or exonerate Nicola Sturgeon.
My thoughts exactly Casdon.
To state that NS has had a lot on her plate( being Scotland's PM the whole time)over the last twelve years especially during Covid and afterwards is to slightly understate the case.
The Camper Van could have been presented as a campaigning Battlebus and the cars as being leased ( as very many are these days). Plus you're not supervising someone that you trust and who presumably earned a reasonable salary ( together they must have been doing OK).
Moreover who could ever have possibly imagined that someone would ditch what I imagine were two unimpeachable records of integrity so cheaply?
It wasn't even a clever fraud from what I've read. It was obvious low-level rubbish( false invoices etc).
My money is on Nicola's innocence. I sure hope so.
I hope so too, Labradora. I would be so disappointed in her. She has made a number of appearances recently, appearing more happy and relaxed than in many years, so I feel surely she wouldn’t be like that if she was waiting for very damaging stuff to surface, but, who knows?
Casdon
I don’t know. It was over a 12 year period, so it averaged between £35–40k a year. Would it be possible to appear to be a better money manager than you were and not tell your partner? Was another woman involved? Did you control the family finances? Would you say a car was on a contract when you paid for it outright? I know somebody whose husband ran up hundreds of thousands in gambling debts and she had no idea, so unless we are told more I can’t condemn or exonerate Nicola Sturgeon.
My thoughts exactly Casdon.
To state that NS has had a lot on her plate( being Scotland's PM the whole time)over the last twelve years especially during Covid and afterwards is to slightly understate the case.
The Camper Van could have been presented as a campaigning Battlebus and the cars as being leased ( as very many are these days). Plus you're not supervising someone that you trust and who presumably earned a reasonable salary ( together they must have been doing OK).
Moreover who could ever have possibly imagined that someone would ditch what I imagine were two unimpeachable records of integrity so cheaply?
It wasn't even a clever fraud from what I've read. It was obvious low-level rubbish( false invoices etc).
My money is on Nicola's innocence. I sure hope so.
I think paddyann has a point to be fair. Someone compared this to the Royals, that did make me laugh. The Royals paying millions to someone they allegedly never met, dodgy deals in Kazakhstan, friends with a Chinese spy, I could go on but Andrew Lownie covers the whole sordid Royal family's covering up of Andrew and Fergie's disgusting behaviour. In addition Andrew and Mandleson used our money, the taxpayer The royals are billionaires but keep sponging of us, the great British taxpayers. If these allegations are true then it is the SNP membership who should hold him accountable. I am not an SNP member so this does not affect me personally however the amount of taxpayers money squandered by the royals certainly does affect me and the more information that comes out the worse it is for the royals. Sex trafficking at Buckingham Palace, young Russian girls, where were the CPO, MI5, MI6. Peter Murrell is sadly not in their league of criminality.
I am disappoited that paddyanne has not been able to contribute more to this thread.
Aveline
I remember the police taking away boxes and boxes of files from Murrell's home and also SNP HQ and searching for memory sticks. Obviously a forensic search through masses of docs.
Suspicious but not surprising that the court date is postponed till after the election. It all stinks.
No it doesn’t stink. There are lots of rules about what happens during an election period and I expect they think this trial may well last into that period. It’s about fairness and the democratic process.
I remember the police taking away boxes and boxes of files from Murrell's home and also SNP HQ and searching for memory sticks. Obviously a forensic search through masses of docs.
Suspicious but not surprising that the court date is postponed till after the election. It all stinks.
I think you’ve misunderstood what I meant butterandjam. She would have known that the SNP books included the purchase of a motorhome I assume. What we don’t know, as far as I’m aware, is if she knew that Murrell had transferred the ownership to his own name?
Casdon
Allira
It’s also strange that one person could spend so much money without consulting others.
Astonishing in fact!
The job advert for his replacement stated the salary as £95,000 pa, a good salary, but surely a wife would notice if her husband amassed a spare £124,000 to spend on a motorhome? Added to that, tens of thousands on Amazon, B&Q, jewellery (who for) etc.?
I know some partners keep their finances separate but these are quite astonishing amounts for someone on that kind of salary.
Perhaps he won the Lottery or on the Premium Bonds 🤔Did she know he had purchased it then? I know from the news at the time that she never went on a holiday in it, and it was never kept at their home. I expect the truth will out.
The entire country knew it had been purchased "by the SNP to use for campaign purposes."
Now tell me that a man who'd just bought a Jaguar to drive, didn't tell his wife .
" it’s also alleged he used £57,500 of SNP cash to pay for the bulk of an £81,000 Jaguar I-Pace motor in autumn 2019.
This charge goes on to say he created a “false invoice” to provide to SNP accountants, leading to “false or inaccurate” information being logged in an “accounting system used by the Scottish National Party in an attempt to disguise the true nature” of the Jag purchase."
and it gets worse
"The car was sold to We Buy Any Car in Glasgow in August 2021, leading to £47,378.76 being paid into Mr Murrell’s personal bank account, the indictment says."
Allira
butterandjam
petra
Of course she knew 🤷♀️ You would be deaf dumb and blind not to question where all the goodies were coming from.
He kept the campervan parked at his mother's house. Maybe NS never noticed because she didn't get on with MIL?
Oh, I didn't know she had no contact with her mother-in-law.
That might explain it, well some of it, not all.
I should have used "IF" instead of because.
^
March 2021
- Three SNP officials - Edinburgh Lord Provost Frank Ross, Allison Graham and Cynthia Guthrie - resign from the party's finance and audit committee after being denied sight of the accounts.
Allira
Aveline
As this case is currently ongoing are we allowed to comment?
Why has it been delayed suddenly?
More charges to come or some to be 'lost'?
The Scottish Parliament Elections are due on May 7th .
The Murrell preliminary court hearing has been moved from February 20 to May 25.
Allira
^It’s also strange that one person could spend so much money without consulting others.^
Astonishing in fact!
The job advert for his replacement stated the salary as £95,000 pa, a good salary, but surely a wife would notice if her husband amassed a spare £124,000 to spend on a motorhome? Added to that, tens of thousands on Amazon, B&Q, jewellery (who for) etc.?
I know some partners keep their finances separate but these are quite astonishing amounts for someone on that kind of salary.
Perhaps he won the Lottery or on the Premium Bonds 🤔
But it wasn’t her husband who bought a motorhome with his own money. It was bought by SNP, the expenditure appearing in the party’s accounts, and the motorhome being listed as a party asset in the accounts.
It is definitely not as simple as him taking money from SNP funds and treating himself to a motorhome ( though some of the media do seem to want us to infer that’s what happened ).
I think the falsifying of documents will be a major concrn.
I just checked on AI to make sure, this is what it says on there:
‘No, there is no evidence that Nicola Sturgeon holidayed in a motorhome. A luxury £110,000 Niesmann + Bischoff motorhome was seized by Police Scotland in April 2023 from her mother-in-law's Fife home as part of an investigation into SNP finances. The vehicle was believed to be an "SNP asset" meant for campaign purposes.’.
I definitely saw it in the media at the time that she hadn’t, I think it must have been part of her defence, but I can’t remember exactly.
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