Trump/Zelensky interview in the White House

Notspaghetti, thanks for raising the issue of English not being Zelensky’s first language. His use of the language is good but the shouting, hectoring, bullying treatment from two older white men was disgusting

ronib

Is there a saying “he who pays the piper calls the tune”?Mamie I seem to have running arguments along the lines of if something is unaffordable, don’t buy it. Then the reply comes back - we can take out a loan. I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect another country to finance another’s battles in such an open ended fashion. Trump suggested that Z was not actively looking for a peaceful solution because he was expecting Trump to stand by his country? Effectively expecting Trump to enable Z to continue with this war without any end in sight?
If this was happening here in the UK, I would hope for some indication that after 3 years and many dead young soldiers some compromise could be found and quite quickly. If this means making concessions then so be it.

Is there a saying “he who pays the piper calls the tune”?Mamie I seem to have running arguments along the lines of if something is unaffordable, don’t buy it.

Of course, Trump could be honest and tell Zelensky that America is not prepared to continue to fund the war because that is not what the American people want?

The flaw of course is that it wouldn't make him look such a great guy.

And then there's Ukraine's alleged mineral wealth.

However, there's also a problem with that.

It has now come to light apparently that this mineral wealth may not be what it originally appeared to be - no one knows for sure just what is available to be mined. Apart from lithium and one or two other minerals - which can also be sourced from other, more stable, countries. This is because the information on them is not up to date - it's based on old Russian maps.

And Trump has acknowledged this.

So let's get back to Trump being an honest broker. He could suggest that after America's previous generosity, the time has come for Europe to stump up and foot the bill - not least because it's in their interests to do so.

But that raises another problem - does Trump actually want a rival military and economic power to that of the US - which might be the end result? I think most would agree that is not what he wants.

He's in a difficult position isn't he?

He's promised he'll end the war in Ukraine and save the American taxpayer's dollars. But that depends on Zelensky playing ball, and Zelensky isn't dancing to his tune in spite of the fact that he's paying the piper.

... and now a question hangs over the extent of that mineral wealth.

What to do? The only solution at the moment is to do what all narcissists do - blame someone else for the problem. Hence the humiliation of Zelensky, which actually started with Trump calling him a dictator in preparedness (and then denied he'd said that, even though it was recorded).

I don't think Trump gives two figs about the war-dead - all that matters is that he retains his position as God's chosen one to lead America to BGA as he genuinely believes God saved him from that bullet for that purpose.

And this whole thing with Zelensky looked like derailing his mission, so Zelensky had to be humiliated - so the American people could see who the 'bad guy' is.

There was no need for these talks to be held publicly. He could have talked to Zelensky as he talked to Putin, behind closed doors.

He set a trap for Zelensky if Zelensky did not agree to the 'deal'. And Zelensky walked into it.

Whitewavemark2

fancythat

woodenspoon

We're now hearing from Nato Secretary General Mark Rutte, who tells the BBC he has spoken with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky twice following the White House meeting.
He says he is "not at liberty to say what was discussed" but shares that he told Zelensky "we have to respect" what Trump has done for Ukraine so far.
Speaking to the BBC, he says Zelensky must "find a way" to restore his relationship with his US counterpart Donald Trump after the two clashed in the White House.
He adds that during Trump's first administration - from 2017 to 2020 - the US approved the sale of the Javelin anti-tank missile system which enabled Ukraine to "fight back" when Russia launched its full-scale invasion in 2022.
"We really have to give Trump credit," Rutte adds.

Just on bbc news website.

Would I be right in thinking in that case, that that sounds like Nato isnt intending to help Zelensky any time soon?

NATO can’t. Ukraine isn’t a member

I was going to write, true.
But I would have thought they could have been more positive.
But I suppose the "help train soldiers" is not of much use in the big scheme of things.

Sadly, I have come to the conclusion that Zelensky is going to have to come to some sort of deal with Trump.
Negotiate. Do a deal. But sadly, a deal none the less.

Zelensky walked into the trap Dickens, but he didn’t take the bait, instead he poked them in the eye. I think it’s a moot point as to whether Zelensky was humiliated either, he emerged as a hero figure from the fray, while Trump and Vance were the bad guys. Whatever happens next, I’d say this episode has irrevocably damaged their reputations.

Iam64

Notspaghetti, thanks for raising the issue of English not being Zelensky’s first language. His use of the language is good but the shouting, hectoring, bullying treatment from two older white men was disgusting

My partner's native language is not English - though he speaks it fluently.

He told me that it takes time before you start to think in your adopted language, until then, you mentally translate what you are hearing into your own language, until eventually your mind becomes fluent also and you understand the meaning without translating it.

I doubt this would even occur to the two vindictive bullies, Trump and Vance.

Zelensky consistently hears and converses in English - but his native language will always be the more familiar.

Casdon

Zelensky walked into the trap Dickens, but he didn’t take the bait, instead he poked them in the eye. I think it’s a moot point as to whether Zelensky was humiliated either, he emerged as a hero figure from the fray, while Trump and Vance were the bad guys. Whatever happens next, I’d say this episode has irrevocably damaged their reputations.

... he emerged as a hero figure from the fray, while Trump and Vance were the bad guys.

To many of us - yes, I agree with you.

But I think this was as much for domestic consumption as anything else. Trump's supporters will see it differently, I'm sure. As intended.

We have a friend who,lived and worked as A senior figure in a big company in Paris. He married a French wife, they and their now adult children speak French and English fluently.

He often stumbles over words during the early period of visits to his native England. He says he thinks in French and translates into English

I can’t image the bully boys giving any thought of consideration to the language issue

I’m sure you’re right Dickens. It’s shortsighted to do things which only appeal to the people who already support him though, because behaving like that won’t gain him new supporters, in fact it will increase his detractors. I don’t think his PR is good at all.

Trump's supporters on FB seem to be adopting Trump's version of the event. Well, they would, wouldn't they?

It was unacceptable that these two men shouted over Zelenskyy, who as a guest was entitled to common courtesy. He is not a native English speaker and I heard today from a Latvian friend that he only learned English recently. To be expected to respond to that unexpected onslaught in a language he isn’t completely fluent in and even if he was completely fluent it is not his mother tongue and it was rude in the extreme.
No doubt Trump fans will think he and his deputy did well, but the majority of decent people don’t agree.

Many Americans on twitter are appalled at Trump and Vance's behaviour. They made themselves look very bad.

Trump, Vance and Musk with his nazi salute - how sad for America and the world

I just watched this from A Different Bias political commentator. It makes sense to em in terms of the possible rationale for Trump and Vance’s behaviour.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw_T7wsU-w8

Facebook this site is for those Americans who disapprove
‘The Other 98%’.

MaizieD

Allira

They were the Soviet Union's nuclear arms, left there when Russia left.

The Soviet Union was undoubtedly controlled from Russia, but Russia is not the Soviet Union, so had no more entitlement to the weapons than did Ukraine, who was also part of the Soviet Union.

I don't know if your implication was that because they were USSR weapons Russia had a say over them once the USSR was dissolved. It doesn't seem like a correct conclusion to me.

Well, I do realise that it was the Soviet Union of course but most countries did not choose to be part of it and it was definitely Russia which was in charge. Ukraine did not dissent, was an original member and thd union did offer security to some countries.

Doodledog

It was horrible to watch.

I so agree. And I felt very angry when one of Trump’s reporters asked Pres Zelensky if he possessed a suit! How extremely rude and embarrassing, but in all honesty, it humiliated the American more than it did Pres Zelensky. I thought he remained very dignified through it all, and that helped to show the Trump up for what he is - an arrogant bully.

Crossstitchfan

Doodledog

It was horrible to watch.

I so agree. And I felt very angry when one of Trump’s reporters asked Pres Zelensky if he possessed a suit! How extremely rude and embarrassing, but in all honesty, it humiliated the American more than it did Pres Zelensky. I thought he remained very dignified through it all, and that helped to show the Trump up for what he is - an arrogant bully.

And I felt very angry when one of Trump’s reporters asked Pres Zelensky if he possessed a suit...

Which says more about the pig-ignorance of the reporter than it does about Zelensky's mode of attire, which - if he, the reporter, CBA to inform himself - is to show solidarity with those who are fighting for their freedom.

I wonder if Musk has been similarly questioned about his baseball cap and t-shirt which he wears under a pea-coat - or maybe he's treated more reverentially because he's an extremely rich American tech bro'?

I hope King Charles discovers he has a very full diary and has to 'delay' Trump's state-visit to the point that Trump gets the message and eventually arrives feeling less smug and conceited than he obviously is now.

Anyway, what actually was he offering Zelensky in terms of ending the war - just relying on the fact that no-one would attack Ukraine whilst "our people" are there raping the country for its minerals?

... which, it turns out, might not be quite the 'find' that was originally thought - apparently there's a question mark over exactly which minerals might be excavatable.

Should have had that debate in private I feel.

Dickenson, you are spot on. All of you who said this is for MAGA is spot on. I saw a lady on Facebook today says she feels safer today because the rest of the world is now (basically) cowering in fear. They have no idea that we are the laughing stock of the world.

This is a blanket apology for ny bad Grammer and typos.

imaround

This is a blanket apology for ny bad Grammer and typos.

Have you heard of typoglycemia?

The mind can often still make sense of words that are misspelled because it primarily focuses on recognizing patterns and context rather than every single letter, especially when the first and last letters of a word are correct, allowing it to "fill in the gaps" and interpret the intended meaning.

www.dictionary.com/e/typoglycemia/

Worry not - anyway, I think most on GN are civil and polite and wouldn't dream of noticing bad grammar or spelling. My own grammar is frequently base over apex, I rely on spell-check, and I overuse the ellipsis punctuation mark... and, IDC.

Thank you for keeping us informed!

The reporter who asked about the suit was the same one who asked the question that started the arguing, clearly a plant. And how did a Russian reporter "accidentally" get into the Oval office? Really!

Mt61

Should have had that debate in private I feel.

No, No, No!!! It may fill some MAGA supporters with glee to see their leader verbally beating someone to the ground, aided by the other actors whose performance looked pre-planned, but it also demonstrated his methods of doing business - and business it was.

This was what is called a "hostile takeover". Trump wants the mineral rights to the Ukraine, and he tried to get them by offering to get Putin to a ceasefire as the "deal" - while publicly insulting him for "not being grateful enough" for asking Trump to confirm that the US would support him as had been promised earlier, and for not wearing a smart business suit (Zelensky had vowed when Putin first invaded his country that until the war was over he would wear the same as the soldiers were wearing)

Now that the world has seen just what kind of a negotiator Trump is (an offer you can't refuse, followed by personal abuse if you don't abjectly thank him for his generosity - that shows personal sadism, as well as political and social brutality) there really can't be anyone who thinks he is a force for good, even in his own country.

The entire thing was a set up - from beginning to end.

Trump sarcastically commented on Zelenskyy’s attire when he got out of the car on arrival.

The reporter who asked the ‘suit’ question is Brian Glenn - a pro Trump journalist, whose partner is a far-right Congresswoman.

This from the Mail online:

”And there were some tell-tale clues that not all was as it seemed. Perhaps the biggest was Trump's sly wink to American reporter Brian Glenn who riled Zelensky – wearing military-style clothing – by asking: 'Why don't you wear a suit... Do you own a suit?' Glenn, incidentally, just happens to be the boyfriend of far-Right congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, who tweeted afterwards about how proud she was of him”

Do Trump and his sycophantic cronies think this is big and clever? Do they believe the rest of us watching can’t see what they’re doing?

Or, perhaps even more sinister, do they want us all to see their plan for exactly what it is - a deliberate joint attempt to publicly humiliate another head of state. How sick!

Re-reading that as posted, it looks as though I should had typed "Zelensky" in place of the "him" in "while publicly insulting him" to make it clear that DT wasn't insulting Putin - as if he would dare!