Trump/Zelensky interview in the White House

You haven’t got the measure of Gransnet Teazel2. People say what they think. It’s not rude to disagree with others’ points of view, but what is rude is personal attacks, so we all bear that in mind.

I completely agree Casdon.. as long as we remain respectful of each others point of view we can have an open debate..

Delila

I wonder if Trump is surprised that his display of histrionics wasn’t massively impressive, as he’d thought it would be, that instead world opinion of him has plummeted to an all-time low. It was all a lot of bluster covering up the fact he had nothing at all to offer in terms of a peace agreement, let alone security guarantees. He simply wasted everyone’s time, and his intention to humiliate President Zelensky, aided by Vance, has massively backfired.

I think this assumes that Trump listens to the opinions of others and learns from his mistakes.

If you think you've been saved by God in order to lead your country, you're not going to pay attention to the opinons of mere mortals.

Also, if he heeded advice, surely he would start blending his foundation, wearing his tie and a normal length and not sporting a candyfloss concoction on his head.

I suggest listening to breakdowns of the press conference by Independant sources,and you will see another side.

Independent sources are rarely independent.
When was spin ever better than than first hand witness evidence?

pascal30

I completely agree Casdon.. as long as we remain respectful of each others point of view we can have an open debate..

OK. I will remember I am allowed to say someone must have special insight and that is allowed without it being insulting!

foxie48

I can't help thinking that the reason Trump dislikes Zelensky is because Z is courageous and Trump is a draft dodger who couldn't even manage doing his National Service. He's admitted making up a fake injury to avoid it. He's been disrespectful to army veterans, especially those who have been captured or injured on a number of occasions.

He's been disrespectful to army veterans, especially those who have been captured or injured on a number of occasions.

When he sneered at the late John McCain - because he'd been captured by the enemy...

(quote) “He’s not a war hero. He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.” (McCain spent 5 years as a POW in Vietnam which, allegedly, left him with lifelong injuries)

... I thought that surely a man who had avoided the draft wouldn't sink that low - but he sank even lower. After McCain's death, he continued the attack - denigrating him for graduating "last in his class" from the Naval Academy.

McCain was dead - couldn't defend himself from the slur nor other accusations that were levelled against him.

He admits he didn't like McCain, fair enough. But is his ego that delicate that, even after death, he can't let go of the fact that he was challenged by him?

What kind of man is the world having to deal with here? Trump appears pathologically insecure - he needs the cheering, adoring crowds at his rallies chanting "four more years" where he beams and sways with satisfaction. Then, if he's opposed (as he was by Zelensky), he frowns and pouts with that pursed-lip face - and the wagging finger. He's a man-child and he scares the heck out of me.

Where it will get really interesting Dickens, I think will be when he starts getting into talks with the big players.. the Chinese..

The attacks on McCain were disgraceful. Trump was also reported to have refused to visit a military cemetery because, having died, the Fallen were ‘losers’.

I agree that he needs the cheering crowds. His ego has to be massaged constantly, a sure sign of deep insecurity. He scares me too, especially given his hero worship of Putin.

Dickens I agree. Thanks for reminding us.

The draft-dodger Trump's attacks on McCain were truly shocking.

When President Donald Trump canceled a visit to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery, near Paris, in 2018, he blamed rain for the last-minute decision, saying that “the helicopter couldn’t fly” and that the Secret Service wouldn’t drive him there. Neither claim was true.

Trump rejected the idea of the visit because he feared his hair would become disheveled in the rain, and because he did not believe it important to honor American war dead, according to four people with firsthand knowledge of the discussion that day. In a conversation with senior staff members on the morning of the scheduled visit, Trump said, “Why should I go to that cemetery? It’s filled with losers.” In a separate conversation on the same trip, Trump referred to the more than 1,800 marines who lost their lives at Belleau Wood as “suckers” for getting killed.

www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/trump-americans-who-died-at-war-are-losers-and-suckers/615997/

Perhaps this article might give some insight into the contempt Trump showed Zelenskyy at the weekend:

foreignpolicy.com/2020/09/08/trump-mocked-us-military-troops-losers-whole-life/

September 8, 2020, 12:05 PM
Perhaps no one was less surprised last week when it was reported that U.S. President Donald Trump had called American war dead “losers” and “suckers” than his former high school classmate George M. White.

The 74-year-old retired Army veteran was Trump’s superior—the first captain, or highest-ranking cadet—in Trump’s 1964 graduating class at the New York Military Academy. White said he witnessed up close Trump’s contempt for military service, discipline, and tradition, as well his ungoverned sense of entitlement, all helped along by his father Fred Trump’s generous donations to the school.

Trump’s comments appeared to be in line with the attitude he reportedly evinced on Memorial Day 2017, when he visited the grave of 1st Lt. Robert Kelly, the son of his then-homeland security secretary and later chief of staff John Kelly. Standing at the grave of the younger Kelly, who died in Afghanistan in 2010, Trump reportedly turned to the secretary and said: “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?”

No-one glorifies war but surely it's not too much to expect some respect for the sacrifices of those who fought and still fight for freedom?

The Russia/USA alliance is frightening.
I say the friend of my enemy is my enemy.

pascal30

Where it will get really interesting Dickens, I think will be when he starts getting into talks with the big players.. the Chinese..

I agree, he’s just raised tariffs. They’re not happy. I’d watch my rear end if I was him, it might get bitten.

Allira -the comment you quote from Trump about American military who died in Afghanistan made my blood run cold. I keep thinking we’ve reached peak shock with Trump then he tops the last one

Peak shock won’t be reached with trump until he finally goes under that proverbial bus. How anyone with half a brain cell can support this excuse for a man, well…

Iam64

Allira -the comment you quote from Trump about American military who died in Afghanistan made my blood run cold. I keep thinking we’ve reached peak shock with Trump then he tops the last one

It's quite sickening, isn't it.
It's the kind of thing a precocious four year old might come out with

He called President Trudeau 'Governor Trudeau'.

What will he call King Charles, I wonder?

pascal30

pascal30

That is how Trump reacts to anyone who stands up to him.. Therefore by acting as he did Zalensky made an enemy..

and I'm really glad that he did.. he's tremendously courageous

Was that in his country's best interest though?

Iam64

Allira -the comment you quote from Trump about American military who died in Afghanistan made my blood run cold. I keep thinking we’ve reached peak shock with Trump then he tops the last one

It made my blood run cold too.

Like others on here, I have a family member (my step-son) who served in Afghanistan.

I think Trump's alleged comment is very telling., “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?”

What was in it for them... clearly Trump cannot comprehend anyone doing anything other than for their own personal profit. He can't fathom service, a sense of duty, commitment with little reward. I don't think he's ever been unselfish or philanthropic in his whole self-centred life.

So, he wouldn't get it would he...

I asked elder son (Royal Marine for six years and fought in Iraq and Afghanistan) why he wanted to join the forces. ‘What’s wrong with wanting to serve my Queen and country’, he said.

I asked a Royal Marine once if he ever questioned where he was sent to fight. He said no, he followed orders and was in the hands of politicians! His brother had the opposite mindset.
It’s hard to hear about young men killed in active service by a sniper’s bullet but it happens. It’s very difficult to get through training too.

Thank goodness there are people who are willing to serve their country. I know several people who are ex army, some now work in cyber security using skills they gained during their army career, effectively still keeping us safe. Interestingly they come from very different backgrounds and have different routes into the army from Sandhurst to joining as a boy soldier. It wouldn't have been for me but I'm thankful for those who it does. I just wished they remained a deterrent and were never called into active service!

Yes thank goodness we have disciplined military, willing to serve their country. Many of the foster carers I met had children in the military. Something about commitment to society through public service. Pity Trump doesn’t get it

I can't help thinking that if Trump hadn't been a draft dodger he'd have been invalided out as psychologically unsuitable. Can you imagine him as a front line soldier? I can't because basically I think he's a coward as in deed are most bullies.

fancythat

pascal30

pascal30

That is how Trump reacts to anyone who stands up to him.. Therefore by acting as he did Zalensky made an enemy..

and I'm really glad that he did.. he's tremendously courageous

Was that in his country's best interest though?

Was that in his country's best interest though?

Probably not. However, his country's people will have differing opinions on the matter, including those who are fighting the war.

Trump and Vance baited Zelensky who is, I'm sure, quite aware of who "holds all the cards". America, under the Trump administration, has no graciousness in its role as a super-power, no geniality. The recipient of its aid will leave the room after the agreement and the hand-shakes, and a metaphorical fist will grip his arm and whisper in his ear, "don't forget who's the boss here", you owe us".

And that is what Zelensky and the world have to deal with. Zelensky slipped up, because he's human. But he's 'corrected' himself and made the necessary noises to satisfy he ego of Trump.

I think Trump sees President Zelensky as an inferior, and it showed and I think Zelensky instinctively was aware of it.

Don't think anyone has posted this link

www.instagram.com/share/BAKGszvB-Y

Just wish it was just "after the party"