Ex Pats deserting Spain

Is that a bit of a mixed message? One minute you say that it is the fault of the bankers, the next you are saying some ex-pats have been naive and gormless! Possibly some did have a rather idealistic view of what their new lives would be, and they are now paying the price, but I could certainly not take such a harsh point of view. Given the current situation in Greece, where I have my little bolt hole, I can only think "There, but for the grace of God....." if I had decided to sell up here and live there permanently.

Oh dear, here we go again. It seems that every word I write is going to be parsed and analysed. It is really quite flattering.
Some people no doubt did not leave themselves sufficient leeway in case things went wrong which was a bit naive of them. Things went wrong for some people because of the financial crash which was caused by greedy bankers. I really don't know how much more clearly I can put it.

I thought my post was showing compassion and was not harsh towards anybody - in fact, I was trying to counteract the lack of sympathy shown by some other posters. Oh well........

Greatnan. I can't see anything ambiguous in your posts. Attributing folly on the one hand and sympathy for the outcome on the other makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

Some people are lured to France or Spain by programmes like 'a place int he sun' with huge rosy coloured glasses and without much proper research. The plan to open a B&B, but haven't really done the sums and accepted that they will be full only 2 months per year at best. They skim all the costs, then the exchange rate takes a huge tumble, and they have no choice but to give up. And yes, although I'd say they 'should' have been more careful and objective in their planning, I'd have quite a bit of sympathy for them.

Greatnan and I met on a French Forum- where quite a few members had 'run away from a UK they'd come to hate' - constantly talking about the 'dreaded Blighty' or 'rat-filled sinking ship'. The disdain and the hatred they'd come to feel for their own country was hard to understand - and I'd imagine they would have been really 'smug' and showing off to their relatives back home- and I'd fully understand if they were not welcomed back with open arms.

One of the members on that Forum is now elderly, with all sorts of health problems, and he would like to return to the UK so that his wife won't be alone 'when the time comes', as she has found it difficult to make friends there and learn the language.

There are 100s of reasons why people wanted the chance to travel and do something different -and 100s of reasons why they might feel that a return home is wise. At the end of the day they have paid their contributions all their lives, and are entitled to the benefits too. But not, NOT entitled to come ad sponge on relatives after boasting with disdain!

granjura Surely no one is entitled to sponge on their relatives – or on anyone else for that matter – whether they have boasted with disdain or not.

When my daughter decided to emigrate to New Zealand, there were plenty of people telling her she was making a big mistake (including her sister-in-law and sister), She felt some of them would have been very happy if the move had not been successful. Some were undoubtedly motivated by jealousy. Well, sucks to them! She, her husband and children have never been happier and love their new country. No, they do not hate England, but they could see very little chance of promotion for her husband and they wanted a different lifestyle. They were able to afford a lovely home with enough land to keep chickens and pigs and grow their own fruit and vegetables.
Of course, they did lots and lots of research, her husband had a very good job offer in writing and there is no language problem. The three children who went with them were just at the optimum stage of their education to make the change.
Like granjura, I was amazed at the people who were planning to move to France in May and wanted to know how to find a school for their children in September - the children never having had a French lesson in their life. They came without knowing how to source health care or benefits, how to register their car, how to let the tax offices of both countries aware of their change of residence, how heavy social charges are in France, the rules that govern letting, or running a business, employment law.........they seemed to think that becoming permanent residents was no different from spending two weeks on holiday. We heard some very sad tales of people for whom it had all gone wrong - failed businesses, unexpected accidents or illness, divorce, bereavement.... I always felt very sorry for them, even those who appeared to have failed to do the necessary research.

Well of course not. I'm sure you got the meaning

If a relative went to live abroad and things turned against them for no fault of their own, bar the slightly pink glasses, and always remained friendly and loving, relatives are more likely to be willing to help if things go wrong. But if people have boasted and looked down at their friends and relatives, showing off and being plain obnoxious- then a hasty return may not see the relies rallying round quite so willingly.

One of the men of that Forum does not have a single good word to say for the England, and his hatred of his own country is hard to understand. For us, we have two countries, that complement each other- and we love both. Lived in one for 38 years, now come to live in the other. Might go back to UK one day - who knows. We would however be entitled to the NHS and other help as we have both worked very hard all our lives and contributed fully to the system.
Losing half your pension due to fluctuating exchange rates is tough though - nobody could have expected it to happen to such an extent- and no wonder our budget has gone berserk. But we will cope, no worries.

Of course you will cope - you always do!

We are lucky than most, and bought a place where prices are actually a lot cheaper than even the Midlands in the UK. For Switzerland, it is rare I can tell you. The renovation project has been put aside, but we just do not care - we love it here just as is, in our old rumbling farm out in the sticks.
Some who moved abroad scraped every little bit together to make it happen- and the downturn in the economy and the falling exchange rate just wiped them out. Some just put the key under the mat and left, leaving dogs, cats, horses... behind. Dreadfully sad.

I have to smile when I hear how the good folk of Anglesey find William and Kate a lovely couple and chat to Kate (in English, I assume) when she shops in the local supermarket. Many years ago I got engaged to a Welsh lad. We were both living/working in Hampshire at the time and he took me to Anglesey to meet his family. They spoke Welsh the entire weekend - especially at mealtimes. His two sniggering sisters seem to take great delight in my discomfort. Needless to say I broke off the engagement as soon as my feet touched English soil!
Years later my eventual DH and I were offered the use of a cottage in Pembrokeshire when our children were small. I had to be dragged kicking and screaming across the Severn Bridge but apart from a few cottages going up in flames and road signs being turned around so you hadn't a clue where you were going we had a really nice time. People in south Wales are much friendlier it seems.

I heard that the Germans in Spain are returning home as well. Even though their Euro is the same. They didn't contemplate being old or didn't want to think about it. They miss any kind of care and have now decided that in Germany the state might look after them.

When I look at pictures of them sitting on the beach and reading the Daily Mail or Bild Zeitung I feel so relieved that I am not one of them.

Twenty or thirty years ago I can remember many of these same stories about people who had retired to all the British south coast resorts from their original homes possible hundreds of miles away and then when one died the lone survivor was suffering all sorts of problems being on their own, miles from family and friends, probably not able to drive etc etc.

The problem then, and now is people remember the place where they went on holiday every year, and how much they enjoyed it, and think how lovely it would be to live there all the time. Our parent's generation retired to Eastbourne, our generation retires to Spain and no doubt our children's generation will retire to Thailand, The Seychelles and Maldives - and have exactly the same problem previous generations have had with long distance moves that have not been thought through properly and while the south coast retirees did not have the problems with languages and legal systems that modern retirees to holiday destinations have, the problems are the same.

FlicketyB I hadn't thought about it that way, but you are so right. Did anyone see a Play for Today called "A sunset Touch" with Thora Hird? It is about exactly that situation, and it is still with me, ove 30 years on.

That's the reason we are retiring 1.5 miles away, still people in the town that we went to school with, worked with for many years and we are friends, so when the inevitable happens and one of us is on their own we will have all the contacts built up over many years.

That is why we moved now..to have time to get to know our 'new' town and get involved locally whilst we are lively and able!! Important I think..daughters just down the road too!

Nanaej - you have exactly described our imminent move! (Including daughter and DGC 1 mile away!) A big plus for me is going back to live by the sea after 53 years! Can't wait!

Seaside sounds great! gagagran Enjoy it when it happens.

We are heading for Devon, to be nearer our family, but then, having led the nomadic military lifestyle, moving on is something we are fairly used to. We are comfortable here, but have no deep roots. Maybe it is time to settle down!

As someone who has lived half their life in a foreign country I would not like to go back to the UK as the country I left no longer exists.

I saw on TV that people are now coming back from Australia and New Zealand as soon as they get to an age when they are no longer fit and active. They suddenly discover that they like the European Culture and feel lost without it. Very few have made much money out of their travels.

I was lucky in that DH was appointed to an advisory position in the North of England Education system for the teaching of German. We went back to the UK and lived in South Manchester for 5 years. We left our daughters who were of an age when they could look after themselves. The 18 year old refused to come to England with us as she had been so oft as a child and felt sorry for us that we had been banned there for 5 years. We left the house and didn't rent it out so that they had a home when back from college etc.

In fact we spent lot of time thinking about the right thing to do for the family and financially. That is what going abroad should be about. Doing your sums and then doing them again.
When the time came to go back I went readily, and arrived home with my second hand piano, bought in Stockport, which couldn't stand the warm dry atmosphere of S. Germany after 50 years of the damp rainy Manchester air. After 3 months we dismantled it and it went to the tip and I was sad about that but got over it.

Going abroad is about swings and roundabouts there is no 100% anymore.

As we were planning a move to France some years ago (which fell through because of health and family reasons) I have often trawled around French ex-pat sites and was amazed by the number of people who expressed vehement hatred for their native land; and would go on to extol the unalloyed virtues of their new home.

I always found this slightly disturbing (with an element of "Methinks thou dost protest too much") - to see the world in such black and white terms seems a bit strange - and certainly unrealistic.

We have friends in various parts of France and one couple used to keep telling us how wonderful it was and encouraging us to make the move; they could see no wrong anywhere. However they were both suffering from serious insomnia for years since moving and I often wondered if their life was as idyllic as they insisted.

When we researched a possible move we looked in detail at possible downsides (as far as one can from a distance) and never had rose-tinted specs - such a move is not for everyone in spite of the jolly time that one may have had on holiday.

Well, we moved to Australia in 1979 because we felt our new baby would have a better future here than in Thatcher's Britain. We loved England, but were deeply disappointed that people elected that woman. We had visited Australia before, and had lived in NZ, so our eyes were open.

I don't think you have much chance of happiness in your new country, if you truly hate your home country: balance is needed, and common sense.

Anyway, our plan for a better future for our son (and the next one who was born here) worked out well. They both have good careers, degrees, commissions in the Australian Army Reserves, and lovely partners. As for us: Australia has an easy way of life, egalitarian system, full access to good education including university degrees for those capable, good climate, and good food.

But homesickness always gets you and there's little you can do about it. We miss the history of England, the green hills, the Yorkshire moors, the Dales, the archaeological sites, pubs and fish n chips. We miss sounding 'normal' instead of marking ourselves as 'poms' when we talk.

Truth is, you can't have it all, and we are staying put. When we do get unhappy, at least we do it under blue skies and warm climate. Anyway, I doubt if we'd understand England now, after 33 years here.

I too was taken by surprise by how vehement some people are in their feelings against the UK, especially on some ex-pat forums. I think some people move because they are unhappy in the UK and not because they actually want to move to France / Spain / Italy etc
My observation is that they are often the people who don't learn the language and don't mix with the local community on anything but the most superficial level. Sadly, for many, "living the dream" becomes a nightmare, especially when finances become a problem. I try not to be too judgemental, but I do get angry when I see people who have taken their children out of school (especially secondary school) and stuck them into the local school without a word of the language and very little chance of reaching the levels needed to pass exams. I think it is one thing to make a mistake in your own life, but very unfair to inflict it on teenage children.
We also did masses of research, but as I have said before I think the reality is inevitably different. We are happy here, but it certainly isn't perfect.

I'm glad we got lots of balance on this thread with some who are happy with the decisions they made about living abroad.. its been interesting to say the least..

You are right , Mamie, some people think they can get rid of all their problems by moving to another district, either at home or abroad. We used to call it 'Doing a geographical'. One woman on an expat forum told us in great length how horrible her neighbours were and how unlucky she had been because all her former neighbours had also been horrible!
I was happy in England, I am happy in France, and I will be happy New Zealand.