Ex Pats deserting Spain

Last time we went to Spain we had Bonka coffee in the Ars cafe. I kept the napkins. I also like the Bimbo bread.

Cheers! Mamie - I'll have a cerveza with you any time!

That's OK Annobel, I need to have a few before I can say it properly!

Mamie, something went missing in my post, I meant to say, except in Spain.

Alison!

Don't think beer is beer in Spain - it's thervaythath!

There are several mentions of people not speaking the language. You mean to say that there are countries where people can move and send their children to school, use the NHS etc and everything won't be done to provide them with lessons and all documents written in multiple languages, what a shame!

My father used to claim that if he could order a beer in the language of whatever country he was visiting, he would survive. Not difficult, as it's very often a variant of - or actually - 'beer', in Spain. But, being a very courteous man, he would also learn the words for 'please' and 'thank you'.

For anyone thinking of emigrating my friend runs a magazine and shows downunderlive website - they are friendly and help people with jobs and visas and information before you make your decision to emigrate. I hope this helps. Lyndie

Oh dear, I would have thought the loud shouting to make yourself understood would have died out by now! I feel that even if you can't learn the language, you still need to learn a few polite words. such as hello, goodbye, please, thank you, and sorry.

I spent one day in the office of a sister company when I visited relatives in France in 2001. I'm OK at reading and writing French, but hopeless at understanding what is said to me. But in that office, after that ONE day of having no help at all - it was converse in French or not at all - my skills improved 100%. Admittedly, I soon learned that 'merde' after every other word helps you fit in. (The entire firm was undergoing nasty changes that eventually left all of us, all over the world, jobless)

I especially remember talking to the girls in the staff canteen, though canteen does not really convey the meaning, it was more like a 5 star restaurant. Anyway, I was telling them about how my husband and I shared all the housework and cooking evenly and they asked if they could book him to train their own husbands and boyfriends! They said no Frenchmen do anything like their share at home, in fact most never lift a finger.

OH though is not a natural linguist - definitely got a scientific mind. But he really made the effort to learn French - as he (and I) truly think that it just a basic form of respect to learn the language of a country you choose to move to. He is always shocked to see other Brits just shout louder and louder in English to make themselves understood. On the French and Swiss expat Forums, some of them have been here for years and still expect the plumber, carpenter, dentist, vet, doctor and all, to speak English and get all uppity when they don't! Just rude and disrespectful ioho.

Joan this is how and why I learnt English so quickly - just had to talk and exchange views, ideas, experiences (no argument as such) - it worked

I have never tried arguing in French - I save it all for forums! I did have a long chat with my hairdresser today and she was very kind about my French, although I have forgotten almost all the grammar. If I can't think of a French word, I just put in the English and hope that the context makes it obvious!

Yes, you're right Margaret, I would love to take regular holidays in Yorkshire but distance, dog and money (lack of) make it impossible! We never even considered moving to another part of Europe back in 1979, because my husband finds learning a foreign language almost impossible. Now I wish we had considered it - he'd have managed in the end, because his need to argue and analyse and state his opinions would have ensured he managed to learn!!

Still, like I said before, blue skies and warm weather make up for a lot.

Your area sounds lovely, Margaret - I have only driven through Germany on my way to Austria with one daughter and two little grandsons. We stayed overnight in Cologne and Ulm, as the boys were only 2 and 4 and I did not like to drive for many hours with them. I intend to do lots more exploring before I emigrate to New Zealand - I will probably drive through Switzerland from my home just South of Lake Geneva. Perhaps I can contact you in due course to see if you can recommend any other outstanding historic towns or villages.

People abroad do fall into two groups. There are some who feel happy anywhere and others who are terribly homesick. I fall somewhere in between. We are in a group of people, all in mixed marriages altough a few members have now died. We Brits definitely don't dislike our native country and we all love the BBC and Radio4 and books from amazon.
My children and grandchildren are German and so you get the feeling with them that your homeland doesn't exist for anyone else.

I like England but DH will only go over in the car every 3 years so I fly to my family in Yorkshire on my own once or twice a year. I know that Joan would love to do that. My daughters are not very interested. Germany has 9 borders and all the lovely European Culture and the Alps are just a couple of hours away.
I also live in one of the most beautiful small market towns in South Germany and we get lots of tourists from the UK, and even before they open their mouths I can spot them in a crowd. They just look English and that makes me feel a bit homesick to see them and I often wonder how I might have developed if I had stayed there.
I think the expats who end up in Germany are not following any kind of life style dream. It is for most, a chance of a better life, or a better job, which brings people here and as a retired gran I have no idea how they feel about it.

You are right , Mamie, some people think they can get rid of all their problems by moving to another district, either at home or abroad. We used to call it 'Doing a geographical'. One woman on an expat forum told us in great length how horrible her neighbours were and how unlucky she had been because all her former neighbours had also been horrible!
I was happy in England, I am happy in France, and I will be happy New Zealand.

I'm glad we got lots of balance on this thread with some who are happy with the decisions they made about living abroad.. its been interesting to say the least..

I too was taken by surprise by how vehement some people are in their feelings against the UK, especially on some ex-pat forums. I think some people move because they are unhappy in the UK and not because they actually want to move to France / Spain / Italy etc
My observation is that they are often the people who don't learn the language and don't mix with the local community on anything but the most superficial level. Sadly, for many, "living the dream" becomes a nightmare, especially when finances become a problem. I try not to be too judgemental, but I do get angry when I see people who have taken their children out of school (especially secondary school) and stuck them into the local school without a word of the language and very little chance of reaching the levels needed to pass exams. I think it is one thing to make a mistake in your own life, but very unfair to inflict it on teenage children.
We also did masses of research, but as I have said before I think the reality is inevitably different. We are happy here, but it certainly isn't perfect.

Well, we moved to Australia in 1979 because we felt our new baby would have a better future here than in Thatcher's Britain. We loved England, but were deeply disappointed that people elected that woman. We had visited Australia before, and had lived in NZ, so our eyes were open.

I don't think you have much chance of happiness in your new country, if you truly hate your home country: balance is needed, and common sense.

Anyway, our plan for a better future for our son (and the next one who was born here) worked out well. They both have good careers, degrees, commissions in the Australian Army Reserves, and lovely partners. As for us: Australia has an easy way of life, egalitarian system, full access to good education including university degrees for those capable, good climate, and good food.

But homesickness always gets you and there's little you can do about it. We miss the history of England, the green hills, the Yorkshire moors, the Dales, the archaeological sites, pubs and fish n chips. We miss sounding 'normal' instead of marking ourselves as 'poms' when we talk.

Truth is, you can't have it all, and we are staying put. When we do get unhappy, at least we do it under blue skies and warm climate. Anyway, I doubt if we'd understand England now, after 33 years here.

As we were planning a move to France some years ago (which fell through because of health and family reasons) I have often trawled around French ex-pat sites and was amazed by the number of people who expressed vehement hatred for their native land; and would go on to extol the unalloyed virtues of their new home.

I always found this slightly disturbing (with an element of "Methinks thou dost protest too much") - to see the world in such black and white terms seems a bit strange - and certainly unrealistic.

We have friends in various parts of France and one couple used to keep telling us how wonderful it was and encouraging us to make the move; they could see no wrong anywhere. However they were both suffering from serious insomnia for years since moving and I often wondered if their life was as idyllic as they insisted.

When we researched a possible move we looked in detail at possible downsides (as far as one can from a distance) and never had rose-tinted specs - such a move is not for everyone in spite of the jolly time that one may have had on holiday.

As someone who has lived half their life in a foreign country I would not like to go back to the UK as the country I left no longer exists.

I saw on TV that people are now coming back from Australia and New Zealand as soon as they get to an age when they are no longer fit and active. They suddenly discover that they like the European Culture and feel lost without it. Very few have made much money out of their travels.

I was lucky in that DH was appointed to an advisory position in the North of England Education system for the teaching of German. We went back to the UK and lived in South Manchester for 5 years. We left our daughters who were of an age when they could look after themselves. The 18 year old refused to come to England with us as she had been so oft as a child and felt sorry for us that we had been banned there for 5 years. We left the house and didn't rent it out so that they had a home when back from college etc.

In fact we spent lot of time thinking about the right thing to do for the family and financially. That is what going abroad should be about. Doing your sums and then doing them again.
When the time came to go back I went readily, and arrived home with my second hand piano, bought in Stockport, which couldn't stand the warm dry atmosphere of S. Germany after 50 years of the damp rainy Manchester air. After 3 months we dismantled it and it went to the tip and I was sad about that but got over it.

Going abroad is about swings and roundabouts there is no 100% anymore.

We are heading for Devon, to be nearer our family, but then, having led the nomadic military lifestyle, moving on is something we are fairly used to. We are comfortable here, but have no deep roots. Maybe it is time to settle down!

Seaside sounds great! gagagran Enjoy it when it happens.

Nanaej - you have exactly described our imminent move! (Including daughter and DGC 1 mile away!) A big plus for me is going back to live by the sea after 53 years! Can't wait!