Feel it is so sad

It doesn't help that all the Mums are 10 year olds, or is that just me!

We recently went out for a family meal, my very young grandson (just 2) had a little programme playing very quietly on a mobile phone during the meal and it helped him to be quiet and sit still. I thought this very strange to do but understood the reasons once they were explained to me. The play area was directly next to us and he wanted to be in there, he has autism but managed to sit through entire meal behaving nicely before then being allowed to use the play area as a reward. He'll learn to join in conversation when he's older but at moment his presence at family get togethers is plenty and an absolute joy.

Too much reliance is placed on gadgets when children are travelling. We always used to play games and have competitions about what we could see around us. Think it's such a wasted opportunity when you see children on their machines when there's so much to look at around them. Easy way out I think. Though there are more families travelling with just one adult so that could make it harder.

What strikes me as odd here, is it’s the grandparents. It’s bad enough when you don’t see young mums engaging with their children. They could be forgiven though, because it may be the first chance they’ve had to go on their phones or whatever, and they’ve spent the rest of the day engaging behind closed doors. Presumably the grandparents time is much shorter, you’d think they would want to engage more. We don’t always know. It could be they’re the main carers, and the grandchildren are with them all the time. The time on the train, or in the library may have been the only quiet they’d had all day!

I don't share your alarm at "devices" although as an ex-teacher I became aware of some issues with language development because either children weren't talked to or (in my affluent area) they spent most of their times with au pairs who were not fluent in English. However there have always been parents who do not encourage communication and as a grandparent I try to provide activities such as games/chess/anything that encourages interaction between my grandchildren and I and they respond with some enthusiasm (usually) because most children love attention and many parents are too busy to provide it. Making the role of grandparent very important I feel.

I used to converse with my GCs when they were young. I remember pointing out a field of cows from the top deck of a bus. It was only afterwards that I remembered the children were not with me! I received a few strange looks.

Some of the games that my DGC play on DDil's phone are useful and instructive - they need a degree of skill and teach them a variety of useful information. However, I do feel strongly that they spend too much time using ipads and watching TV, often at the expense of simple and rewarding human contact. When they visit me there are no ipads, we play board games together, go for walks, feed the ducks, they use playdo and do craft work, and generally seem quite bright and happy with what I offer. That said of course I have them for a couple of days - and they go home!

Yes i liked the prams/push chairs that were facing you too as you can constantly talk to the child,and point things out,but as they get a bit older& go in the forward facing ones you can still talk to them& lean over or around sides to speak or point things out to a child.the young mums dont often seem to bother these days..

@paddyanne even although your lovely granddaughter didn't understand what you were saying to her she was learning to 'take part' in a conversation by 'answering' you with noises. A very valuable tool in learning to talk. (Sorry from a retired Speech and Language Therapist)

Dear lizabethann55 I totally agree with you, but that grandparent may have been with that child all day and every day the parents are working. I believe that today grandparents are expected to look after the grandchildren so that they may work to often make ends meet. That library or train journey may just be the places where that grand parent can have five minutes in a busy day to themselves, where really they should have the day. I love seeing my grandchildren now I am retired, but it is on my terms and it is quality time spent. I worked full time for 40 years and want some me time, I worked opposite my husband to enable us to provide. I find having grandchildren for the day tiring so only do it in emergency. Maybe I'm wrong, but it is another side of it. Xx

I always used to chatter along to my youngest(whichever was youngest at the time) in a pushchair as we walked along,consequently they now never stop talking i do it to the GC too,but yes often on buses the mums are scrolling their phones while the child is trying to get attention from someone,so they usually end up talking/playing with whomever is sat opposite the pushchair,often its me,or some 'little old lady' near them we chat to the child or wave,(sometimes it shames the mums into joining in or speaking to their child themselves) occasionally you do do get a mum who does talk/sing with their child,but not much.

I had one yr old GDG to stay recently - I have an ANCIENT silver cross pram which I used for her. Not only does she face me but she is not at exhaust-fume height and the pram has room for my shopping too. Years ago I even used it for two babies at once! Much hilarity from everyone we met.

Grandad was in the library which is a good place to be with a child and perhaps the little girl was absorbed choosing her books. However, do agree about gadgetry it does impede conversation, but everyone is of their time and such devices are omnipresent in children's lives these days. Our grandchildren, when they stay as they will tonight, will arrive with Ipads and our granddaughter her phone too, only 10 but she's had that for a year now I did on one occasion say to her after it appeared, "you don't talk to me like you did anymore" maybe she took that on board because the last few times we've had more engagement. There's an optimum time with children when they are sparkly and full of wonder and then sadly that seems to disappear, if only it could be bottled.

It is best not to judge on a short period of observation. At least the Grandad was in the library with his granddaughter introducing her to books. I agree though that some parents rely on screens to occupy their children rather than interact with them. Screens have their place in our modern lives but they are not babysitters.
I didn't like buggies although they were useful, I loved taking my children out in the big pram where they could see everything and we could talk.

Shelmiss I agree. And not everyone can keep up a constant flow of conversation with a small child for the entertainment of passersby. Some children actually want and need some time to think their own thoughts and go off into their own dream world.

I think the first example in the library sounds nice actually, a companionable silence. I think it's very sad that technology is everywhere and there seems to be less human interaction. I don't like seeing babies propped up watching a phone.

I see it all the time Lizbethann55.
And it`s amazing how many mothers pushing pushchairs are on their phone and not chatting to the little ones and walk out onto the road without looking.
Even more amazing is how families are having a meal together and they are ALL using their phones.
Communication has gone out of the window for so many and it is sad.

Agree with Paddyanne about pushchairs. I borrowed a twin buggy (remember the McLaren stripey ones?) for a holiday as DD and DS were 2 & 3 at the time. They hated it - too near dogs, cars, etc. I used to enjoy my walks with DGS chatting face to face and playing I-spy. He is now 10yr old and we still have a game when stuck in traffic or on a train journey.

I think you are judging these two situations too harshly without knowing the big picture. You don’t know what came before and after each. In the library it may have been that they were each having some quiet downtime after a hectic morning together. Same with the train journey.

Never assume that what you are seeing is the full story, that’s arrogant and very judgemental.

paddyanne: I think pushchairs facing away from mum might have started the problem,its not easy to chat to a hood or the top of a head.

My daughter wouldn't have that. Even in the pram she was turning around to see what was ahead of her. Far too interested in the world. I did talk to the back of her head :-))

You are not alone in being sad about the lack of interaction and those missed opportunities.
We notice it more now because of mobile phones which are so intrusive but I can remember trying to pull my mum away from chatting to somone, tugging at her skirt to make her pay me attention. That wasn't yesterday.

No way are you a "sentimental old fool," Lizbethann! IMO, there is so much wisdom in your words. But as Lovely suggests, you're only seeing "snapshots" of these people's lives. Maybe that granddad watches his GD frequently, engaging in many activities w/ her, and deliberately came to the library for a little quiet. Perhaps that granny had been busy w/ her GS all morning and was getting tired. Or he just really loves to listen to those nursery rhymes. Or not. My point is there's no way to know. But I do appreciate what you're saying.

You can't judge a snapshot of someone else's life. I'm introverted and can't be talking every minute of every day. It would be far too much interaction and would tire me out straight away.

As a teacher we would go on school trips and there were a few parents who meant well but were always questioning, explaining, over-interacting with the children. The children never got a minute's peace to reflect on their surroundings or to just 'be'. None of the class wanted to be in their group because of it!

It is certainly is sad.
That magic time when the little ones just love you to bits is a time of pure delight.
Then when it is gone it still leaves a bond between the pair of you.
If that time is never shared I don't suppose the bond can be there.

I think pushchairs facing away from mum might have started the problem,its not easy to chat to a hood or the top of a head.I made sure all my GC had granny facing seats in the pushchairs I kept here and we talked all the time when we were out.Sometimes just nonsense sometimes I'd tell them what I was going to do and what needed done or like today I told my 6 month old about breaking my toe.She hadn't a clue what I was saying but she was involved in the telling and making wee noises back and smiling.