Son has signed out

Yes, Smileless, NRD tried many forms of apology - that’s why I questioned whether User had actually read his post. But I see she’s given it her own unique interpretation.

User, that last remark to Smileless is unnecessary & way too personal.

Often, an apology without changed behavior can effectively be manipulation.

If someone is immediately cut out then there is no opportunity to know if they have changed.

In the case of NRD, I don't see anything in his posts about changing his behavior. He seemed to expect his son to get over it after apologizing.

User15839

Smileless, perhaps you could have remained close to your son, or at least closer than you are now if you never attempted to control his life by adding stringent conditions to the home you attempted to gift him and his family.

Just some food for thought.

Please quit.

Smileless, Once again, I can use the language I choose whether you agree or not, so long as it does not violate the rules of the site. You telling me otherwise is (failed) policing and making a futile attempt to control my language. You can argue (alone) about it if you like but I don’t have to post how you like, don’t have to use words you approve of, and I won’t. I said what I said. Agree or don’t. I don’t have to justify my choice of words to you, nor will I modify my posts to suit whatever you deem acceptable. Any further attempts to control how I express my observations will be ignored. Happy to discuss the topic at hand, but will not further discuss my choice of wording.

And to all those saying “it happens”. Yes, verbal abuse does happen. It’s still wrong and equally wrong to downplay it.

Who's downplaying it, though?

bakestrategic

In the case of NRD, I don't see anything in his posts about changing his behavior. He seemed to expect his son to get over it after apologizing.

Agreed. I feel sorry for him to the extent that he doesn’t seem to grasp how damaging the behaviour is, but I do hope he eventually gets to a place where he can fully own that he can’t just explode at family and expect the level of engagement he desires. I may have missed what estranged him from his daughter but even if it seems to him unrelated to his situation with his son, there is clearly an underlying issue that is killing his close relationships. He wants to be closer to his children. I understand that. As a parent I hope he gets to a place of self-reflection to potentially allow it. Accountability goes a long way for many. I don’t think all hope is lost for his family.

MissAdventure

Who's downplaying it, though?

Literally anyone who insinuated his son was “immature” or dismissed the verbal abuse by saying “it happens”.

I didn't dismiss it.
I said its a lost opportunity to see if lessons were learned, if you cut someone out.

MissAdventure

Who's downplaying it, though?

You by saying “it happens” and Smileless by saying it’s not abuse. I think your question has been answered multiple times.

It does heppen, though.
Regardless of right or wrong, families fall out.
Neighbours fall out.
Drivers fall out.
Couples fall out.
Siblings fall out.

I can’t tell if you’re missing the point intentionally or not. Of course it happens. Responding “it happens” instead of something like “that’s wrong” is minimizing it.

So is immediately jumping on any parents who post about arguments, family issues, sons, daughters.

But, here you are (still)

Do you have response about the minimization? Changing the topic doesn’t make you correct

MissAdventure

I didn't dismiss it.
I said its a lost opportunity to see if lessons were learned, if you cut someone out.

I think situations where abusive behaviour is exhibited, there is zero obligation on the part of the target of the abusive behaviour to see if “lessons were learned”. I don’t even think the goal is to teach when you want to get away from someone who is being so disrespectful, as evidenced by the lack of contact. I think the goal is to remove one’s self as the target of said behaviour.

Though, that doesn’t mean NRD should not work on his anger. His son may one day desire limited contact based on the fact that his dad’s anger is under control, but I highly doubt the son would do so because he “taught” dad a lesson. I like to lean into the mindset that most people simply want to have positive relationships with their parents. In my mind that may be incentive enough should NRD improve the way he interacts while under stress. Trying to be hopeful here, despite obviously not hearing the son’s thoughts. These situations are very sad.

Oops! I didn't mean you're minimising it - i meant cutting out your own parent and then going out of your way to jump on other people who are parents seems as if the estangement hasn't been positive at all for you.
Unresolved issues, it seems.

Especially when you zone straight in on one particular person.

MissAdventure

Who's downplaying it, though?

Has this been answered for you? Also I’m not estranged from my parents if that’s what you’re implying

I'm not implying anything.

Ok, has your question which I quoted been answered?

Frankly, I've forgotten ny question

“Who’s downplaying it, though?” Was your question. Many answers were given.

Yes, they were.
None of which has probably helped the original poster, who I'm sure is long gone, so it seems rsther pointless re-hashing all this over and over.

I’m pretty sure it was more helpful for him to see why his actions lead to the distance than the advice from others that downplays it as something that just “happens”. His son obviously didn’t view it as something to be flippant about, and NRD clearly wants to be on better terms with his son. Not hard to see that reinforcing the idea that “it happens” won’t help him improve his relationship with his son.

User every time you write some thing you show how judgemental you are, that can't just be on here. if there were a check list of how talk to others and discuss, how many ticks would you give yourself or more to the point would others would give you.