Son has signed out

Smileless2012

Precisely Madgran. Judgemental and offensive remarks are more than likely going to make someone defensive, and understandably so.

Yes Smileless. If the purpose of posting is to help somebody to see the wood for the trees through their distress, then giving difficult constructive advice in an honest, clear and kind way (which does NOT mean avoiding saying what the person needs to hear) is more likely to be successful 🤔🙂

Precisely Madgran. Judgemental and offensive remarks are more than likely going to make someone defensive, and understandably so.

"bakestrategic" Just to clarify my point about the kindness factor is that done in the right way an upset and confused person is more likely to be able to "hear" the difficult message and hopefully act on it.

I hope you have achieved your aim of "getting a better understanding" from your questions. 🙂

If NRD dad is still reading, I hope you can filter the comments and take in only what you feel may help get you in a better place with yourself and with your son, even if the advice doesn’t reinforce your current perspective.

Family matters more than any opinions on the internet.

Disagreement isn't denigration.
Fetching up another posters estrangent, alongside a made up scenario around it, is.
That's the short and long of it.
It helps nobody, not the original poster, not the member who is estranged, and is merely commenting, as we all may, and I'd imagine, not even the person who jumped in to attack mode.

There is absolutely no need for it.
Its a discussion.
Not a war, not a point scoring exercise.

@MissAdventure,

I’m not sure who you were referring to as far as this “little gang” is concerned but whatever you are referring to has nothing to do with me. I’m too old and too disinterested to engage in online or in-person bullying. I wish all could say the same…

People are allowed to disagree with anyone here. Disagreement is not denigration. People are allowed to see the same information and have different perspectives on it. I could point out real examples of actual bullying that would run quite counter to your particular narrative but I don’t enjoy such discussion derailments, which seem to be used as a tool here at times. We were having a robust discussion on one poster’s conduct toward a family member and varying perspectives on said conduct. I see no reason to center someone else in the middle of it.

No worries stillawipp.

I agree with your suspicion Maremia.

Thank you bakestrategic .

Madgran77

bakestrategic

I’ve just asked a question that won’t be answered it would seem. Cursing at someone in rage over a reasonable request I would think is blatantly unacceptable behavior.

Well cursing generally at someone isnt helpful. But it may be human on occasion when someone is upset and confused! Noone is perfect!!!

I agree the poster can only change and control his own behaviour. But there are also ways to give constructive ctriticism and suggestions to someone so obviously distraught and confused, that genuinely helps them to start working out a way forward. And it CAN be done kindly!

I totally agree that to err is to be human! To me what matters is how we respond to mistakes we make, like making changes to prevent the mistake in the future, not expecting forgiveness after an apology, etc. I also agree that the kindness factor could be higher for some posters. I've been trying to respectfully ask questions to get a better understanding, and I thank posters like Smileless for answering in good faith even though we have fundamental disagreements about what constitutes abuse.

I suspect that not all Posters on this Thread are here to help.

bakestrategic

I’ve just asked a question that won’t be answered it would seem. Cursing at someone in rage over a reasonable request I would think is blatantly unacceptable behavior.

Well cursing generally at someone isnt helpful. But it may be human on occasion when someone is upset and confused! Noone is perfect!!!

I agree the poster can only change and control his own behaviour. But there are also ways to give constructive ctriticism and suggestions to someone so obviously distraught and confused, that genuinely helps them to start working out a way forward. And it CAN be done kindly!

OK, well just my opinion and we’ll have to agree to disagree on that point!

I disagree stillawipp. Personally, I always appreciate someone challenging a poster who posts something negative, judgemental and/or insulting too or about me.

IMO Maremia unless something is particularly nasty it shouldn't be reported because it's left for all to see, it says a lot more about the person who made it than the person it's aimed at.

Smileless2012

I agree Delila which is why IMO negative, judgemental and insulting posts should be challenged and is why I do so.

If they go unchallenged it looks as if everyone contributing to that particular discussion agrees with them.

Actually I think the opposite may be true - if they are completely ignored it is clear that they are not even being dignified with a response because they are so far off the mark !

That might work.

The negative and controversial replies are usually enough in themselves for people to see them for what they are - goading for goading’s sake. In my humble opinion, they are just best ignored rather than being given oxygen and being allowed to derail the whole thread. Or maybe just dismissed with a one line ‘ obviously I disagree but I’m not going to argue’ type comment. Wouldn’t that make the whole forum more palatable for everyone? They can hardly argue with themselves if everyone else refuses to oblige!

Would this be an issue for the Mods?

I agree Delila which is why IMO negative, judgemental and insulting posts should be challenged and is why I do so.

If they go unchallenged it looks as if everyone contributing to that particular discussion agrees with them.

Smileless2012

Well I've never been messaged by anyone put off by unnecessarily unpleasant and judgemental posts being challenged stillawipp.

I feel bad for anyone old or new who wants help and advice, but is too nervous to post for the first time or has been at best disillusioned by some of the responses they've received and doesn't come back.

Smileless2012 - ah, OK, well I have certainly received those messages

But if we leave the replies to those who are relentlessly negative, insulting and judgemental, people will have to be very brave indeed to post sensitive and personal information on this forum.

Well I've never been messaged by anyone put off by unnecessarily unpleasant and judgemental posts being challenged stillawipp.

I feel bad for anyone old or new who wants help and advice, but is too nervous to post for the first time or has been at best disillusioned by some of the responses they've received and doesn't come back.

I'll look forward to an explanation too eddie.

Yes, I agree Smileless2012, I have also had PMs from those who are put off from posting because of the constant challenges and arguments & I myself gave up at one time as it just seemed pointless. I just feel so bad for the people who want help and advice and are too nervous to get involved.

Judgemental and overtly critical comments will put people off from posting stillawipp.

I would think that seeing posts of that nature being challenged rather than being off putting would give others some comfort knowing that there are some who will respond kindly. It isn't so much what we say, but how we say it that matters.

Every estrangement thread doesn't go the way this one has but unfortunately many do.

Others trying to make me look bad by incorrectly posting about our estrangement isn't lovely for me and certainly doesn't float my boat, but after 13 years of it it doesn't bother me either. It does though deter others from posting as I know from pm's I've received over the years, and too many who think they've found somewhere 'safe' to talk about their own situation have been driven away because of how they've been responded too and/or seen how others are treated.

I agree InRainbows that a lot of very good advice about how certain behaviours can be received is good advice but not if it's delivered by insulting the one the advice is being given too.

Could someone explain to me why NRD is being accused of habitually shouting and swearing at his son.
He said that following his son's surprising and unwarranted actions he lost it and said a few expletives "which is NOT common" . I take that to mean it is very unusual for him to swear at his son - and in this case it happened because he was so shocked by his son's behaviour.
Let's not forgotten that his son had been quite happy to live with NRD for a long time while it was to the son's financial advantage (which apparently counts for nothing now).

For myself, I think no one is perfect and we all make mistakes of course we do. It's that old idea of showing you are sorry by not repeating it.

I am conversely to what people accuse each other of, coming into these discussions with the idea that no-one is bad, not the parent and not the child. Just 2 people that may be helped by an outside perspective with a strong sense of right and wrong.