Is Gransnet leaning more to the left?

Dickens

Meandrogrog

I do not trust Labour and never have, .i simply do not understand why anyone would ever vote for them but .i do respect the rights of those who choose to do so. I would never display the amount of sheer vitriol I get back from voting Reform although I am leaning towards the Tories again as I do like Kemi.

Are you saying that you don't understand why anyone would vote Labour because you believe them to be untrustworthy, or is it because you can't fathom why anyone would vote for broadly left-wing policies?

If it's the former reason, what - in your view - makes them untrustworthy? I'm genuinely interested Meandrogrog, it's not a trick question.

I'm curious because, in spite of being more left-wing than centrist at the moment, I could in future vote for a Conservative government - in theory anyway. I'm thinking in terms of a post-war type Conservative government that rejected both 'hands-off' capitalism, and outright state socialism.

I can see why people vote Tory, and I can also understand the attraction of the Lib-Dem party - I can even somewhat 'get' why people would be attracted to the pre-Reform Nigel Farage when he was, circa 2006-ish, leader of UKIP.

But, forgetting the accusations of racism for the moment, what I cannot understand is anyone - especially any woman - voting for Reform after hearing the comments and observations, made by men, revealed in the undercover exposé. It isn't that what was said was 'offensive' as much as the fact it indicates a contempt towards women. And, at a time when violence against women and girls is increasing, the very last thing we need is men with such attitudes possibly getting anywhere near positions of authority. That's the bit that worries me.

Farage has got to condemn these men, and stop obfuscating about 'establishment stitch-ups' - he knows jolly well that these undercover operations are historically used by journalists across the political board; as I said in another post, a similar exposé was launched against Corbyn.

How do you feel about this? Please don't take this as an attack, it isn't, I want to understand why people can still support Reform after listening to - or hearing about - these recorded conversations and comments. I can only assume that it's thought such men are, ultimately, harmless braggards or are simply being vulgar 'lads'.

Dickens, .i will answer this in more detail but am going out for the day. I dont want to rush my response so will reply once back later today.

In truth people tend to be a mixture of beliefs, but are usually able to identify with a political party.

I’m a mixture I think of 6&7 with a bit of 5 thrown in😊

Galaxy

If someone had been recording in my labour branch meeting as they discussed a female breastfeeding that too would have made the front pages. A different kind of misogyny ( more subtle) was on display in the clp meetings at one stage.

They would have had to go some to match reform.

Galaxy

Do you think reform might lock women up with men or call rapists she, or support womens faces being entirely covered, we wouldnt want that kind of thinking anywhere near positions of power would we.

Galaxy it’s entirely that kind of response which leads to “goady” responses.

You make very valid points.
My response to this is is no!

In these areas Labour initially got this wrong.

Biological women are deserving of both respect and safe places and this doesn’t need to be at the expense of any minority group.

Again, though, a tiny part of our population are Transgender, either way, and even smaller part of Transgender people commit henious crimes.

I’d go further than this and state very clearly that my belief (and it’s a personal opinion) is that it’s men posing as Transgender women, that are among the raping offenders.

The one Transgender woman I know has had the anatomy which would allow them to commit rape, removed.

The one Transgender male I know, who started life as a female, has also been anatomically altered on the top half and had vast hormone treatment, is living their life very peacefully and happily as a “male” ambulance driver married to a biological female.

I believe Transgender people should be allowed to live their own way, provided, like every other human being, they keep to our laws, and work to financially support themselves.

Sorry my comment 8.31 refers back to my post on political spectrum.

Galaxy

If someone had been recording in my labour branch meeting as they discussed a female breastfeeding that too would have made the front pages. A different kind of misogyny ( more subtle) was on display in the clp meetings at one stage.

And most women here, I would imagine, including me, would be disgusted with this.

Please!! Not transgender again! A single issue that frankly has been done to death,

Unfortunately there is a certain type of left wing person who will brook no criticism of either the LP or a Labour PM or Minister or Labour policies.They can be very strident on here and come over as holier than thou and if they don’t like a comment from those they perceive as ‘far right’ even tho that poster may be a Conservative voter or thinking of voting Reform, they go after them full tilt.
That doesn’t happen the other way round, that right voting posters go after left wing voters so aggressively.
It’s a fact that has to be faced, but I don’t suppose it will be, and there will now be hot denials.
I was so disappointed with Keir Starmer that when I wrote that he was making big mistakes and also RR as Chancellor I was told that I wasn’t a real Labour supporter…after my lifetime of being one. I was vindicated when KS was rejected by the Labour backbenchers and others.I will be watching AB closely too.Labour just have to get things right or they will be back in the wilderness years.
Supporting any political party doesn’t mean gushing about how wonderful they are all the time, sometimes they need a bit of tough love.
No poster should have to put up with personal comments and they should always be reported.

Whitewavemark2

Please!! Not transgender again! A single issue that frankly has been done to death,

It hasn’t been done to death enough!

Gracey If you’re still here, I’d love to hear the positives things Trump has done please?

I found your comment re members of this site both rude and goady, but that’s your personal view and I’m happy to accept that.

Gran22boys

I think people with what are considered to be right wing opinions may sometimes be afraid to post on GN.

People with all sorts of views may be on GN; some will always object to discussion of them. People can be held to account for many reasons. Some people can come very close to suggesting that laws should be broken and take offense if held to account. Others see disagreement with the principles underlying their views as a attack on them personally.

You will always (I hope) get a variety of both views and level of argument but I guess that will also always lead to areas were some want to "shoot the messenger" or in this case, the "rude" person daring to point out the failure of these arguments.

Surely better here in words than elsewhere in action.

Well, I cannot actually think of any single poster, Oreo, who

"Unfortunately there is a certain type of left wing person who will brook no criticism of either the LP or a Labour PM or Minister or Labour policies."

Now, at the time of the election of course people were backing who they wanted us to vote for, but that was very even specific.

Can you honestly, really think of any single poster who fits your description in the last year? Brook no criticism at all?

For truly, I cannot.

If you name any thread where this happened, of course not a poster's name, I'd be glad to look it up and address what you said after reading it?

A "general impression" frankly will not do. You make a bread statement with no examples at all

Oreo

Unfortunately there is a certain type of left wing person who will brook no criticism of either the LP or a Labour PM or Minister or Labour policies.They can be very strident on here and come over as holier than thou and if they don’t like a comment from those they perceive as ‘far right’ even tho that poster may be a Conservative voter or thinking of voting Reform, they go after them full tilt.
That doesn’t happen the other way round, that right voting posters go after left wing voters so aggressively.
It’s a fact that has to be faced, but I don’t suppose it will be, and there will now be hot denials.
I was so disappointed with Keir Starmer that when I wrote that he was making big mistakes and also RR as Chancellor I was told that I wasn’t a real Labour supporter…after my lifetime of being one. I was vindicated when KS was rejected by the Labour backbenchers and others.I will be watching AB closely too.Labour just have to get things right or they will be back in the wilderness years.
Supporting any political party doesn’t mean gushing about how wonderful they are all the time, sometimes they need a bit of tough love.
No poster should have to put up with personal comments and they should always be reported.

Please Oreo, be more specific, because that’s not my view nor have I seen any one else on here stating Labour has never made mistakes.

I was a KS supporter, but I never warmed to RR, I also stated at the time and afterwards, that the whole Winter Fuel fiasco was rushed through and ill thought out.

What I have seen on here, is a very few Johnson supporters, completed bewitched by him and never ever admitting that he put a foot wrong,

🙄 A broad statement not a bread statement. ☺️

Ooops Wyllow and Oreo again, crossed posts.

Oreo I absolutely agree with your statement that AB has to get it right and he really really does have to do his very best not to make any mistakes. 😱😱

I did say there would be hot denials and here they are.

Snap cossy. Not good enough to make statements like that with no backing. Except of course it could be argued they are just deliberately provocative to start a spat, but what is the point in that? It doesn't address the O/P helpfully in any way.

DAR 8:54

Well said, I would just add that those of us who do actually enjoy a “debate” would be extremely disappointed if only those posting were those who completely agree with everything posted.

It would be pointless, boring and extremely dull.

Please please do continue to post your opposing views, your credible evidence, your views and opinions.

I learned things from GN, it’s always interesting to hear others views and their why.

Let’s just all, including me, be a little less kneejerky.

I’m very guilty of this and I need to take a breathe and think prior to posting, which I do try and do the majority of the time.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Whitewavemark2

Please!! Not transgender again! A single issue that frankly has been done to death,

This IMO is shouting someone down, it is a serious issue for some people.

Why can we not raise this subject?

Of course I won’t give examples or name posters, that would be entirely wrong.
If anyone wishes to trawl through every political discussion in the last few years then good luck to them.
I stand by what I say.

To return to the O/P

Yes, there are currently more Left/centre Left posters than Right

.....but that is due to current circumstances, imo, ie Reforms racism/misogyny and money dodgy obtained: and the Conservatives currently not providing (yet?) a credible set of policies.

It could just easily swing back to right wingers being comfy to post when events and circumstances change

Oreo

I did say there would be hot denials and here they are.

I’d dispute that, but clearly would be wasting my time.

I think on this particular topic, i respectfully agree to disagree.

My post was not a “hot denial” it was an honest appraisal as I see it and clearly you disagree, which is absolutely fine.

You’re verging on personal insults there * Wyllow3*