Disappearing contributors - part 2

I think the important thing is whether the process we are told is followed (ie that a banning is discussed with posters via a conversation on email, and the accused is given ample opportunity to mend her ways and stay within the guidelines) has been followed - both in this case, and in the cases of others who have been banned recently.

If there has been an oversight and the process was missed for some reason, everyone who has been banned as a result of that mistake should be reinstated. If, OTOH, it was followed, and someone has had repeated chances to toe the line but hasn't, then it's different - we've all seen (or most of us have) what happens when recalcitrant posters are allowed back.

Following on from your points Doodledog isn't the problem for some of us, including me, that we have no confidence that the indicated process has been followed? As I understand from third parties in direct contact with her Allira says she wasn't given warnings and no dialogue took place, she hasn't even been shown evidence of the charges used to condemn her. I have no reason to disbelieve either the third parties I've spoken with or Allira who I not only like, but trust and respect. Gransnet does itself no favours in not at least being totally transparent with Allira, and I think lots agree the rules are so amorphous they could mean anything or nothing. I posted before it's just the same as being told not to exceed the speed limit but we're not telling you what the speed limit is. In my opinion there are posters active on threads today who are actually doing what Allira was publicly accused of by AnnieGransnet, some have deleted posts against their names but they're still posting. Why the different treatment?

The thing is, the mods don’t have to explain anything to us, much as we’d like them to, ultimately they are in charge. I don’t think telling them what they should do, or asking for the reinstatement of all posters is realistic, particularly given that some banishments were of posters more abrasive or confrontational than her, which makes them more understandable than that of Allira. I didn’t agree at all with GSM being banished, or growstuff, or volver for example, but in all those cases I could see why it happened. I think it weakens the case for Allira’s return if this request is broadened to include others therefore

The fact that nobody has had a bad word to say about Allira’s posts, and nobody saw her as trying to control threads should be an indicator to the mods that this one was not an understandable banishment, we feel it was unjustified, and that’s the basis on which the case for her return is the strongest in my opinion.

Rosie51

Following on from your points Doodledog isn't the problem for some of us, including me, that we have no confidence that the indicated process has been followed? As I understand from third parties in direct contact with her Allira says she wasn't given warnings and no dialogue took place, she hasn't even been shown evidence of the charges used to condemn her. I have no reason to disbelieve either the third parties I've spoken with or Allira who I not only like, but trust and respect. Gransnet does itself no favours in not at least being totally transparent with Allira, and I think lots agree the rules are so amorphous they could mean anything or nothing. I posted before it's just the same as being told not to exceed the speed limit but we're not telling you what the speed limit is. In my opinion there are posters active on threads today who are actually doing what Allira was publicly accused of by AnnieGransnet, some have deleted posts against their names but they're still posting. Why the different treatment?

I know exactly what you mean, Rosie, and was suggesting that as Allira was not given an opportunity to engage in a dialogue then a mistake may have been made and the process not followed. If a review shows that this is the case, then there is no reason why she couldn't be reinstated.

My other point was that if there have been oversights in following the process, then other banned posters should bet an amnesty too; but when it has been followed (eg if someone was banned and allowed back after an apology to others, but still caused trouble), then the situation is different.

The fact that nobody has had a bad word to say about Allira’s posts, and nobody saw her as trying to control threads should be an indicator to the mods that this one was not an understandable banishment, we feel it was unjustified, and that’s the basis on which the case for her return is the strongest in my opinion

I have no views either way on Allira’s situation personally - but anyone who did feel that she was justifiably banned would not feel they could say so?

LucyAnna5

^The fact that nobody has had a bad word to say about Allira’s posts, and nobody saw her as trying to control threads should be an indicator to the mods that this one was not an understandable banishment, we feel it was unjustified, and that’s the basis on which the case for her return is the strongest in my opinion^

I have no views either way on Allira’s situation personally - but anyone who did feel that she was justifiably banned would not feel they could say so?

There was another thread, which talked about this thread being inappropriate, so even if people felt intimidated about posting their thoughts on this thread they could definitely have done so there? There have also been some critical posts on this thread, but none of them were about Allira herself, so I took that to mean that people aren’t critical of her personally. Perhaps I should have said that I’ve seen no evidence to suggest that anybody had a bad word to say about Allira.

LucyAnna5
I have no views either way on Allira’s situation personally - but anyone who did feel that she was justifiably banned would not feel they could say so?

Tue, and they would obviously feel aggrieved that their hurt feelings had been dismissed. For all we know, they could be pleading with GN NOT to allow Allira's return.

Yet another reason for leaving posts to stand if you’re banning a poster on the grounds of those posts.

Casfon
There was another thread, which talked about this thread being inappropriate, so even if people felt intimidated about posting their thoughts on this thread they could definitely have done so there? There have also been some critical posts on this thread, but none of them were about Allira herself, so I took that to mean that people aren’t critical of her personally. Perhaps I should have said that I’ve seen no evidence to suggest that anybody had a bad word to say about Allira.

Not true - my thread was about inappropriate behaviour by Allira’s supporters . Try and get your facts right and don’t post untruths

1. What EXACTLY will lead to the Mods banning a poster? At the moment it is too vague.
2. What exactly is the due process the Mods follow before banning a poster? Again, not specific enough.
3. Did the Mods follow that process in Allira’s case?

Tuliptree

Casfon
There was another thread, which talked about this thread being inappropriate, so even if people felt intimidated about posting their thoughts on this thread they could definitely have done so there? There have also been some critical posts on this thread, but none of them were about Allira herself, so I took that to mean that people aren’t critical of her personally. Perhaps I should have said that I’ve seen no evidence to suggest that anybody had a bad word to say about Allira.

Not true - my thread was about inappropriate behaviour by Allira’s supporters . Try and get your facts right and don’t post untruths

I’ve read the whole thread Tuliptree, I know exactly what it was about and what was said. There’s no need to attack me like that.

:47Aveline

Just heard from Allira. It seems that the mods are going on inaccurate and erroneous information. Please review

Which is why Allira should put in SARS to try to find out just what information they have based their banning on.
The link I gave earlier explains what needs to be included in an email to them and it's straightforward but I understand if Allira may not feel up to it.

ClicketyClick I will message her 🤞

Casdon was merely summing up her thoughts on where oeople could 'safely' express different viewpoints. She was actually seeing both sides.

Mollygo

LucyAnna5
I have no views either way on Allira’s situation personally - but anyone who did feel that she was justifiably banned would not feel they could say so?

Tue, and they would obviously feel aggrieved that their hurt feelings had been dismissed. For all we know, they could be pleading with GN NOT to allow Allira's return.

Yet another reason for leaving posts to stand if you’re banning a poster on the grounds of those posts.

I think this point is critical.

If (and AFAIK it's not certain) someone has reported a post, they have a right to do that, and unless they are just being malicious will have been upset by something, and her (I assume) feelings matter too.

However.

There are those who get upset about lots of things, whether they would be against any sensible rules or not, and many assume that because they are upset it means the poster upsetting them would necessarily get banned/the post deleted if they reported it. We see variations on 'I haven't reported it, as I'd rather let people see how mean you are' all the time. It's undeniable that some are more trigger happy than others when it comes to reporting.

I agree that leaving anything that's not actually illegal - maybe with certain w*rds m*derated - would let readers decide for ourselves whether a deletion was deserved or not. As I've said, I remember VS's threads being littered with deletions - not because we were all being horrible, but because she saw any disagreement as a personal attack, and reported all the time.

In the end though, I guess it doesn't matter what we think - the final decision is with HQ. The trouble with relying on reports instead of active moderation is that all it takes is for a malicious poster to recruit some friends and get them to report people they don't like, and they'll get rid of them.

Casdon- there’s a difference between an inappropriate thread and inappropriate behaviour. It’s a pity you can’t recognise that.

Tuliptree

It does not seem to occur to you that your perspective is the not the only,, or, necessarily the right one Tuliptree. Should you wish to make a negative comment about Allira’s contribution to the forum or what you deem her inappropriate behaviour, please feel free to do so, instead of disputing other people’s perspectives when they differ from yours.

I agree with Casdon
While it seems nobody can agree on virtually anything else, all agree that Allira shows none of the behaviours she's been accused of.

She is too laid back, and too nice to try and "control threads", plus I think gransnet is a pastime for her, rather than a political arena for her to try and dominate.

I don't think this is about Allira. In my opinion it is about a poster encouraging other posters to hijack other threads. The Henry Novak one was a step too far. I thought that behaviour was totally wrong.
This thread is not owned by anyone and posters who have a different pov who have not been nasty should not be subjected to being told that they are jealous.

I agree with that, too.

Just popping in to say goodnight Allira and all.
Will join in again tomorrow in the hope of persuading the moderators to look again at this case.
There is so much wrong with this.

Casdon

It does not seem to occur to you that your perspective is the not the only,, or, necessarily the right one Tuliptree. Should you wish to make a negative comment about Allira’s contribution to the forum or what you deem her inappropriate behaviour, please feel free to do so, instead of disputing other people’s perspectives when they differ from yours.

You posted a completely inaccurate comment. No matter how much you protest, that remains a fact. Protest all you want, you remain in the wrong. I have never said anything about Allira’s behaviour but I certainly remain completely in the right about the inappropriate behaviour of those spamming other threads as part of their attempts to get her reinstated and especially the HN thread. And I am far from alone in this . Not every GNer is part of what is increasingly becoming a cult .

Good morning Allira. I hope you have a good day and continue to rise above the unpleasant situation you have been put in.

Good morning Allira. Thinking of you.

Throughout this thread people have been saying that they have no problem with the thread to support Allira but they DO have a problem with comments about supporting Allira and the campaign to reinstate her being put on other threads.

In particular many posters felt that commenting on the Allira issue on the Henry Nowak thread was highly inappropriate. I agree with that

I cannot understand why some posters on here appear unable to separate those those two things as in:

1. Anger about Alliras treatment and loyalty to her

and

2. Appropriate/inappropriate campaigning strategies to highlight the Allira campaign