Not such good news

Such a terribly sad thing ..........I wonder if that coach who took them down there knew anything about caving, or the monsoon approaching .....totally irresponsible and now he has put the lives of 12 boys and himself in jeopardy ....... I hope against hope something can be done to rescue them ..the reports said they are getting weaker, which is not surprising .....it is however good to see people rallying round and forgetting differences of language or culture, and so pleased that billionaire has sent help. Sincerely hoping for a good outcome, Sadly I think I saw on the news that the method they used for the Chilean miners (boring a hole down to rescue them) cannot be used here, as they have tried to find a suitable location so far without success.......fingers and everything crossed Bless them and their parents so awful !

Nelliemoster I don’t understand your thinking about prosecutions of ‘ two’ leaders ? There is only one young coach as far as I ve read and it is a cave that people do go in obviously not where they got to but I think as the rain cane they tried to get away from it and got totally lost and too deep to get out don’t forget they were in total darkness I think it was a simple adventure went badly wrong

It is a very very sad situation that a life has already been lost in the lengthy rescue procedure.

I feel very proud when the world comes together and works together in a major recovery and rescue like this.

However, I cannot understand, nor have I seen it written anywhere, the reason why a group of youngsters were taken to the caves at this time in rainy and monsoon season when we've already read that it's a no go area in the rainy season.

I may have missed this somewhere but I'm asking the question every time I see a report that does not address this.

I pray for all to be returned home safe and sound with no further rescue casualties.

Rainy season is normally from the beginning of July to October. I saw this in a report I read yesterday. The boys went in the cave on June 23rd, presumably believing they had a week's grace before the monsoon rains. They had been in the cave before.

I'll see if I can find the article this info was in.

I presume from the beginning of July has been thought to give some leeway.

I also read somewhere that a guard (?) outside the cave entrance let them in. Perhaps that is where the two people to blame came from.

Not that indulging in blame is going to help anyone.

www.news.com.au/lifestyle/relationships/family-friends/thai-cave-coach-lost-entire-family-aged-10/news-story/f707d6791ab0424c4321ce327951a25d

Apparently it’s a rite of adolescence that local boys will run into a (?the) cave to the back - a kind of bravado ‘dare’ - to scratch their initials onto the back wall. Dangers are known, hence the ‘bravery’ of doing it. Boys will always be boys but tragically in this case the flash flooding occurred. A nightmare for all concerned.

Devastating .. the whole world seems to be praying for them
God bless the dear man and may his extraordinary bravery not be in vain ... traumatic all round ... I’m terrified to hear the news just incase the dear children cannot escape .. the poor families ... may the Angels be surrounding them now with their love and comfort ...Please God EVERYBODY get out safely

What on earth were they doing down there in the first place?

I am devasted for them all
Please God everybody get out safely ..poor innocent children just wanting to be kids .. and now facing this terrible plight ...I pray so much for them ...
Anybody would have to have a heart of stone not to be utterly moved by all of this ;0(

It seems a bad idea at any time. imo.

Please don’t let’s start the victim blaming- there’s enough of that going on elsewhere on GN. Please. I’m sure all the circumstances will be looked at afterwards but for the moment, they are there and brave people are helping

An experienced rescue diver is there who reckons that the caves aren't that difficult to navigate and the water is shallow so the oxygen lasts well.
Apparantly the deeper the dive the less time oxygen lasts and the caves aren't that deep with water.

that doesn't sound right to me because water pressure (and its affect on compressed gasses) are measured in bars (barrs?? not sure how it's spelt)

but you cannot measure bars the same way in a cave as you would in open water. for a start the trapped pockets of air over the water are already compressed and adding pressure on the water. "Normal" bars account for atmospheric pressure at the given altitude.

So its not about how deep or shallow the water is, that's applying open water diving theory to cave diving and it doesn't work. Here the pressure of the air pockets have as much of an effect as the depth if not more.

Re Fifa, the boys need something positive to hold on to whether they make it out or not

It is all so so tragic... for the boys, the diver who died his family and the parents watching and waiting.. I guess the boys do not realise just how bad it is/will be diving out.. ever hopeful of a good outcome but not sure it will be....
Thanks GN for the updates

In short you need to calculate atmosphere pressure over the water plus weight of the water over the diver to work out air usage.

A shallow cut off pool with a cut off chamber of squeezed air over it will make the water more dense so the air usage may be higher there than in a deep non cut off pool which has areas open to normal atmosphere.

So its a case of overestimating gas requirements without loading up the diver so much that they get stuck/trapped. Difficult.

I haven't commented before for two reasons. One is that I am sure my response is the same as everyone else's, which is to hope for a good ending.

The second reason is that I have no specialist knowledge or information to contribute so there's nothing else for me to say.

It's dreadful isn't it? None of us can breathe a sigh of relief until they are all safely out. Their families must be so worried.

for those not understanding -how-flash floods are literally that.could be sunny and clear and up the road it is raining cats and dogs.water heads to lowest point.
was stuck on a mountain years ago.full moon gazillion stars then fast water lots of it all around us.add a cave and its horrifying.diving is dangerous under the best of conditions.
many blessings and hope for these poor boys.

Bluebell and maryeliza Totally agree. I cannot understand anyone jumping straight to judgment. They will suffered enough. They are all relatively young and it was reported that the coach was suffering most severely with malnutrition as he had given his food to the boys.
Prosecution would be about punishment and teaching a lesson. He has already had that in spades.
I also read a psychologist saying that it will be harder for him to overcome the trauma than the boys as he will feel responsible.
It is a time for compassion for all.

I keep thinking about the Chilean miners who were trapped several hundred meters underground, yet survived for 69 days.

International/Chilean rescuers drilled a bore hole and were able to drop down food, oxygen and supplies for weeks until a second, wider escape route could be completed (in a little less than two months). They used an escape pod similar to a lift, and brought them up one at a time.

Would it be possible to drill an escape route from the top and get them out that way? The boys are trapped some 300 meters deeper down than the Chilean miners .....no small thing, but would that be too much of a difference to be a deterrent?
Are there any compelling reasons why drilling down 1000 meters instead of 700 m makes it any less feasible?
I also fear that the scuba plan is too risky. At least one of the seals said there will be more casualties if they decide to go that route. At this point, they need to consider creative alternatives because they're fast running out of time. I continue praying for them every day ..... it's never too late until it is.

I m surprised so few people seem interested on GN
I think we are all concerned and hoping for a good outcome Bluebelle, and many more people may read the thread than contribute to it.

I m surprised so few people seem interested on GN

That's not fair.

Some things are so horrific that words can seem trite. I think the whole country is following this story but really what is there to say? It's awful. We all agree on that.

The technicalities of the rescue can be discussed but lets be honest do you really want to say out loud (or on type) how this could end if the worst case scenario plays out? because I don't!

A newspaper is printing dispicable comments that are absolutely vile .... shame on them .. seriously I wish I could do something to see them dissapear from view with their rubbish rag ... it’s discpicavlr and makes me ashamed to be british when you see how they have allowed such dispicable monsters print such stuff about those poor children... I hope the newspaper gets it’s just deserts and is no more ...shame on them !!!

Some things are so horrific that words can seem trite
It doesn't mean that we are not thinking of them, their families and everyone trying to rescue them.

by that, I am agreeing with your post notanan, if that didn't seem clear from mine.