Schools banning skirts.

I don’t agree with banning skirts,I believe there should be a choice.
I must admit to living in jeans,trousers, cut offs, with special occasion dresses,skirts.

It won’t belong before being politically correct will become the new authortiranisum. Very scary.

I went to a school fate on saturday with my grandaughter. she had a go on a tombola and won some sweets. Say thank you to the little girl I said. I am a boy said the child about 7/8. Then the other child said he is a boy . The boy had long black hair and was wearing a dress with the word princess on and pretty pink shoes . The teacher came over and really told me off in front of my grand child and said the boy is gender fluid and decides which gender he wants to be when he wants ( I thought it was ironic that he and the the teacher were saying he and boy although the child was clearly identifying as a girl that day. My granddaughter was very confused . I guess by banning skirts they are trying to deal with certain issues. personally I love skirts and dresses and being feminine and equality. I think issues of inequality and upskirting are deeper issues and should be deal with rather than masking the issue with a ban.

I totally agree with trousers for both boys and girls - men and women almost always wear trousers at least some of the time. I've seen the schoolgirls in my local area and their skirts barely cover their ass - this is inapppropriate and trousers are eminently suitable for all sexes. As for larger girls, of which I was one, the right trousers are far more flattering than a skirt. This said, I'm getting really fed up of pandering to a tiny minority at the expense of the majority!

Some schools around here wear skirts and some wear trousers. In both cases, the schools allow both but the girls decide what is going to be the norm. If the girls aren't wearing leggings with the skirts, they normally wear shorts. They are very aware of the upskirting issue in their own way but have made a choice which satisfies them.

Girls wear skirts and dresses out of school and will do so after they leave. Schools do not have the right to take that choice from them.

Grannygravy The private school discipline system is simple 'stick to the rules, or we throw you out'.

Upskirting is covertly taking photos of underwear, it can't happen accidentally!

It would be gender neutral to say that all pupils have the choice of wearing either a skirt or trousers.

pinkjj27, if the child said 'I am a boy' he was clearly identifying as a boy in a pink princess dress that day, so male pronouns were appropriate.
But, how you are supposed to know that, just from seeing the child, I've no idea.

FarNorth Thank you for your comment however that is not correct as the teacher had said "Today for the fate he has chosen to be a girl and is using a female idenity which is why he looks like he has dressed like a a girl normally would. He May wish to change his clothes and hair later today and idenify as a boy . We must allow for fluidity when it is required" . Her very words still pronouns. Sorry but I admit I was confused.

I'm not quite sure what I feel on this one as I can see both points of view.

Bearing in mind the hot weather we're having at the moment, I would have thought skirts would be more welcome than trousers. And both the secondary girls schools I attended had a winter and a summer uniform (do they still do that?). The summer uniform was a dress, which would be much cooler and more comfortable in hot weather. But I can see that it is unfair if girls have a choice but boys do not. I suppose both sexes could wear a sort of lightweight Bermuda shorts.

It's not an issue that I find myself getting too upset about though.

still using male pronouns

I know gender and age and other social factors are is a social construction I am a sociology lecturer and have been teaching this stuff for years, but surely, as Weber said there has be to some form of common symbols in identity in order for humans make sense of their social world and intact with it accordingly? .
Making every one wear trousers is not actually gender neutral.

J52. Totally agree with you. Why should we be dictated to by a minority? It’s ludicrous!

love skirts and dresses and being feminine

I wear trousers nearly all the time. It does not make me any less feminine than I've always been by virtue of my genes and feminine physique.

Hmm... "feminine physique". How to define? How even to define "feminine"? We are definitely going down a rabbit hole with this stuff.

For all of human history so far it has been relatively easy to tell whether a person is male or female. Suddenly, with self-identifying, it has become potentially difficult, as shown by pinkjj's story.

I think the onus is on the self-identifiers to make clear what their self-identity is that day, rather than on everyone else. People can't be blamed for thinking someone who most definitely looks (sounds, moves, etc) like a female is not a male.

Teetime I am totally in agreement with you, I thought gender neutral mean't everybody could wear what they like. My granddaughter wears trousers some days and a skirt other days. She looks beautiful in both.

Ok,so we ban skirts to protect the girls modesty or whatever. How soon before we have to cover their arms,faces necks in case it inflames boys uncontrollable passions?
Women have always worn skirts,look back in history.
As another poster pointed out it took us ages to get the right to wear trousers.
We are supposed to have been liberated and yet we are now going backward.
I don't get it!

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and lays eggs . . .

It took a long time for it to be acceptable that women and girls could choose to wear trousers without being accused of being "unfeminine". They didn't want every woman to be forced to always wear them, but to be able to choose between trousers and skirt. In the same way, men (except for kilt-wearers) have fought to wear skirts if they want to

To ban skirts and make trousers compulsory is a move backwards. If it were the other way round - trousers banned and skirts compulsory - it would be obvious how ridiculous it was.

pinkjj27 as Weber said there has be to some form of common symbols in identity in order for humans make sense of their social world and intertact with it accordingly?
Possibly but these do not need to be gender orientated.
Interestingly enough I have seen quite a few girls recently with hair short shaved at the sides and styled into a quiff on top. They are usually in jeans or trousers and t-shirts with black track suit tops or a jacket. Bit like Jack Monroe. They are usually well made up and look very smart. You have to look carefully to decide if they are boys or girls. I don't think that stops me making sense of the world or prevents anyone from interacting with them.
Interestingly when offered the chance of dressing up my DS often chose a dress. It's good that the young can experiment with roles.

At my private school in the 70’s and 80’s school uniform was strictly enforced and everyone knew where they were. My own DD’s went to private preps where there was a lovely but old fashioned uniform with little straw hats for the summer! I did like the uniform but when they hit secondary school they hated uniform and we ended up with the skirt rolled up rows!
I agree that choice is the ideal situation but at the same time unless schools are willing to enforce strict rules there will be teenage girls with “belt” skirts
Lots of posters have pointed out the teenagers in the 1960’s had mini skirts but I don’t suppose the schools encouraged these as part of the uniform?

I don't find this an easy one to take a clear view on, I can see both sides of the argument about imposing clothing historically seen as male on girls.

One thing I can be clear about is the level of irritation I've felt when reading posts suggesting that state schools should follow the lead of private schools in enforcing strong uniform policy.
There are so many differences between your average state and your average private school that weather the children are expected to wear a straw hat or a cap at all times are irrelevant. The pupils at private schools have one thing in common - enough money to pay for education along with life's essentials. Pupils at state schools range for children on FSM to children who live very comfortably.

I've also been irritated by references to "political correctness" ruling the world and the LGBT Q community having too much media coverage. There was a comment earlier, suggesting that if a boy did choose to wear a skirt to school, he'd likely be ill treated by his peers. Well, that fits with up skirting in the list of totally unacceptable behaviour. Homophobic, trans bullying should be top of our list to challenge.

I find myself concluding that girls and boys of whatever age should be allowed to choose whether to wear skirts or trousers. Skirts in this hot weather and trousers when its cold and miserable and to express themselves.

I would like to say thank you to everyone who responded to my posting. It has both helped my thinking but overall its a very confusing debate. I am really glad that we are having (have had if its finished) a reasonable discussion with no unpleasantness. Thank you.

School children are sexualised by over-sexualised cultures.

I agree with Lemongrove that the trousers rule is a good one, even if the kids try to subvert it by wearing tights.

There should either be strictly modest school uniforms or no uniforms at all.

Ideally there should be a universal acceptance of complete nudity in warm ambient temperatures in which case the human body could not be over-sexualised by clothing.

Iam64 I am slightly confused, what has money got to do with discipline. Virtually every school in the U.K. has a uniform, the pupils need to wear clothes to school, and as such uniform puts all on a level playing field.

Like I said in my previous post, my children have been to independent and state schools. The main difference I found was that in the independent schools the parents backed the teacher/school in uniform policy. Whereas in the state school the parents backed the pupils against the school.

Education is the best gift a child can receive. School should be a haven of learning, without stressing on wether Johnny or Joan can wear a skirt or trousers, and if they choose to wear a skirt, and some idiot thinks it is appropriate to shove a camera phone up it punish the idiot, not victimise the skirt wearer.