Abortion Time Limit

There are too many points raised here to respond to them all. However, I will address a few:

Many of you seemed not to have taken on board that I agree with abortions for medical reasons, and that obviously there would be valid exceptions to the time limits.

As for 'insults' - yes, I do find it insulting to be called a 'woman hater', a misogynist, and to have my blogs slagged-off as being 'narrow-minded', 'poorly written' and 'high-handed self-indulgence'. I don't take too kindly to being called an 'anti-abortion fanatic', either.

(And I would like to state here that I gave birth to twin boys who both eventually died from a genetic abnormality. Thankfully, with the advance of medical science, this can now be detected in the womb - and if I were young again, and pregnant again, and this horrible affliction were present, I would have an abortion. No question!)

And the suggestion that I was starting up this Petition just to get people to buy my books! (A poetry book, and a book about stress ...?) Yes, I found this pretty insulting!

And one last (quite spiteful, I think) post that I just have to correct is that of Gummybears (above). I would like to point out that this Petition was not mine - it was a Change.Org Petition that I signed. And the dolls are not just child-SIZE dolls, they are child-SEX dolls! And I make no apology for wanting these banned in the UK.

On a more positive note - I appreciate most the comments made, and yes, I'm now thinking that 10 weeks is perhaps too early. Maybe 16 ...?

I am also heartened by Cold's information that 92% of abortions are carried out at 12 weeks or below.

So thank you all - you've made me think again.

NO

Lyndiloo I am so sorry for your loss of your twin boys.

So...women over what you deem to be the acceptable threshold that CHOOSE for whatever reason they feel is relevant should do what exactly?

Carry a child to term that they for whatever reason do not feel able to look after - then what? Put them up for adoption? Put them into care? Abandon them? Raise a child they did not choose to have?

OR, the most likely outcome is that women will seek abortions illegally, as happened before safe medical abortion existed, putting their own lives in danger and possibly dying in ,the process.

It is idiotic and dangerous to suggest removing the option of safe medically regulated abortion for women that need or want one. It will only lead to women once again dying from botched back street abortions, and unwanted babies being born to women that cannot care of them or do not wish to have them.

Your petition would get no support from me.

And let's not forget that it was poor women who died. Rich women could buy a termination from doctors and have a nice safe procedure, sometimes in a Harley Street clinic. The idea that you will stop abortion by changing the law is ridiculous.
Lyndiloo if you haven't seen the film "Vera Drake" do please watch it. It is quite harrowing but gives a real insight into the abortion situation before the act.

Elrel Yes, I was astounded by what she told us. It was the Blackdown clinic at Leamington Spa, don't know if it is still there. Such things do affect how I look at things and make me realise it is not quite as simple as it may seem.

Another thing which made me wonder how easily some women terminate a pregnancy was when I was in hospital in LS trying to save one of my pregnancies and the girl in the next bed whose curtains had been drawn opened them and decided to chat. She asked me why I was in there and after hearing my answer very cheerfully told me she was in for an abortion. A few days later there was another one but I have no idea whether she was cheerful or not.

Yes, these things do cloud my opinion. I think we should educate people to not become pregnant simply by not taking precautions against pregnancy so that they don't think of an abortion as just another means of contraception. If not for the sake of the baby, for their own sake. Obviously in cases of rape etc it is another matter but it would be interesting if anyone has the statistics of the reasons for terminations.

@gummybears Thank you for your post on page 3.
Says everything needed.

Nonnie, table 7 in this document. These are the most recent figues as the 2017 data won't become available until this summer.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/679028/Abortions_stats_England_Wales_2016.pdf

thanks GB I am shocked at "Repeat abortions
 Thirty-eight per cent of abortions in 2016 were to women who had had one or more previous
abortions, the same proportion as in 2015." Surely when someone has an abortion there should be counselling and they should be taught how to prevent another pregnancy?

No thank you.

Perhaps some of those women were desperately trying to have a baby free from abnormality and aren't succeeding.

trisher you may be right but 38%, that's a lot.

I imagine most of us on here who support a liberal abortion law, would wish for a world in which all pregnancies were welcomed ( even if not planned); in which all mothers lived in emotional/financial circumstances that made the birth of a child the joy it should be ; that all mothers and foetuses were healthy ( and in the mothers case that would include mental health). A world in short where abortion was never necessary. But the world isn’t like that. I can’t find any research on women who have more than one abortion but my guess would be that the reasons are many and varied and in many cases probably beyond the reach of counselling ( during the wait for which a woman could probably get pregnant again several times) and contraception advice. It would be good to have some evidence base re women having more than one abortion to see if there were anything to mitigate against that happening but we have to live in the world as it is whilst trying to improve it. I just feel sad that some women for whatever reason end up in this situation

Nonnie, that advice is given.

Sadly some folk have very chaotic lives (substance users, serious mental health issues that are not consistently treated, people not in regular contact with health services due to eg homelessness) and they continue to end up in the terrible situation of being pregnant when continuing the pregnancy would not be safe for them or the foetus.

A persistent issue I encountered in previous work related to alcoholics. They often had little idea of what had happened to them when blackout drunk, subsequently realised they were pregnant, and presented to health services having drunk extremely heavily in the first trimester. Foetal alcohol syndrome is devastating and has a myriad of extremely serious lifelong effects. Disabled children, it wrings my heart to say, are statistically unadoptable in this country: in 2015 not a single child with disability was adopted in England and Wales.

And some of the most unfortunate and vulnerable women turned up in this state, time after time. And time after time, they were given a termination. The highest count I ever personally came across was a young woman with several very serious mental illnesses, a personality disorder, and a very serious alcohol addiction. She had been through this cycle eleven times. Every time, she was further psychologically and emotionally hurt by the choice she was faced with. Each time, the people in the community who were taking advantage of her vulnerability remained nameless and faceless, whilst she was condemned by the people around her and I am sad to say, some of the workers who were supposed to help support her.

The implant or IUD can be really effective for these women, but the way contraceptive services are delivered means you have to have a separate appointment to have the device fitted. (My consultant wanted me to have the implant fitted before discharge with my second baby; it couldn't be done in the hospital and I ended up waiting six weeks to have it done in the community)

There is a percentage, small but significant, of really vulnerable women who are not being well served by how we try to manage their medical and social needs.

And that is not a desirable outcome for anyone.

I recognise all the above but can it really account for 38%? It just seems such a huge number of people either unable or unwilling to take responsibility for not getting pregnant. Bearing in mind my friend who was never able to get pregnant again I wish there was something we could do instead.

Gummy contraceptives FAIL ...fact! I got pregnant twice while using contraceptives .I was married so I wasn't that concerned ..I later miscarried both those babies.

We need to stop judging women who have abortions ...whatever the reason .They may have been coerced into getting pregnant ,they may have been taking medication that stopped the pill working .They may like me just be unlucky that their IUD failed .Its really no ones business but their own.If they feel that at that stage of their lives a baby is not the best option then they MUST be able to terminate the pregnancy

The facilities to care for unwanted/negeted or abused children is aready strtched to its limits ,we cant add countless other children to that list.
As I had family members who grew up in care I can tell you its not what most people would want for a child.

My experience working for many years with families in the community accords with what you say in your post gummybears. Some people live very chaotic lives and sadly the situation has become much worse with funding cuts affecting any supportive services that are available. Whilst I don't like the idea of high levels of abortion, as maryeliza says we do not live in a perfect world, and I wouldn't like to support a change in legislation that would adversely affect women whose lives are infinitely more difficult than my own. As has been said, regardless of legislation the better off could always source medical abortion.

Very well said paddyann.

Another non-signer here.

As paddynan says , contraception fails. I have one child (much loved) as a result of that and that child, herself has a much loved child who was conceived when contraception failed.
Yes, women who have chaotic lives as a result of mental health, drug/alcohol dependence are less likely to use contraception. So are their male partners. Those who criticise the women who have abortions haven't so far as I've seen, made any criticism of the men who fathered those unwanted babies. I've known men who fathered 16 babies, that they know and agencies know about, no one know how many other babies they've casually fathered.
Women usually end up bringing up the children. Most women aren't unhappy about that. Let's support women, let's speak out about men who casually father children they have no intention of supporting in any way.
Let's stop judging women, we aren't all perfect. I'm not a Catholic but some of my Catholic friends find the whole subject of abortion so distressing they avoid it. I respect their views. What I really struggle with is the blame loaded on vulnerable women, we're all vulnerable if we are considering abortion. Some of us are more vulnerable than others.

Iam, I am not sure if you are referring to my post, but I assure you nothing I wrote there is a condemnation of the vulnerable.

It was (poorly expressed on my part, it seems) an attempt to illustrate how some vulnerable people repeatedly present for terminations, in answer to something posted further upthread.

I don 't criticise what anyone else does with their uterus, because it is absolutely none of my business. And what I do with mine is no one's business but my own.

I don't expect anyone to justify their reproductive choices to me, because I will be damned if I will justify mine to anyone.

But my heart absolutely went out to the women I met who were in the situations I describe. Some people have damnably hard lives.

I assure you I have plenty of blame to assign to the people who raped, coerced, paid, abused amd took advantage of these women with literally not a care for the consequences.

Thank you for all the informative and thoughtful posts on this important subject.
Better funded MH services and drug facilities would clearly help but I guess we already knew that.
I'm shocked that no disabled children have been adopted. However I have knowledge of dedicated people who
foster disabled children.

Nonnie I do know 2 women who’ve had more than one abortion due to abnormalities. This is 40% of the women I know who have had (to my knowledge) abortions. I’m not saying that no women have multiple abortions for ‘unwanted’ pregnancies, but I suspect the number of those is probably quite low.

My comments weren't aimed at anyone in particular gummy bears. I was meandering and reflecting on life and work experiences which lead me to feel the men who cause so much damage often walk away without living with the emotional and psychological consequences the women and often children, are left with