Abortion Time Limit

Even if a problem is detected at the 20 week scan in many cases further testing is required to assess the extent of the problem - this means that the full information to make a decision is not available until after 20 weeks.

A friend of mine went through a dreadful time during a pregnancy with a much wanted baby.
A scan at 19 weeks showed an abnormality that could possibly mean a baby that would not survive birth.
In week 21 she was sent for an emergency appointment with a neonatal specialist at a top London hospital. Further testing was carried out.
The test results did not come back until she was almost week 23.
The baby did not have the most severe condition but had certain physical problems that would require surgery.
She continued with the pregnancy - the baby had several surgeries in his first year.
But through no fault of her own she didn't have full information until 23 weeks.

I know someone else whose 20 week scan showed that she had a very aggressive uterine cancer and that she would die unless the pregancy was terminated and she started treatment. So sadly she did have an abortion at around 21 weeks.

OP I think this boat has sailed.
More useful to study The Netherlands.

I feel sure that legislation could be formed so that an accidental pregnancy could be terminated up to a certain date only and also allow for sever abnormalities of the mother's health to terminate at a much later date. Don't see why it has to be assumed that there is only one solution.

Oh you mean like an accidental pregnancy when a 13 year is raped and doesn’t even know she’s pregnant until she’s 20 weeks? There isn’t only one solution at the moment anyway - it’s 24 weeks unless the mother’s health/life is endangered or grave foetal handicap in which cases there’s no limit. You do realise don’t you that restrictions on abortion don’t affect the well off and well connected? They’ve always had access to safe abortions - it’s the hard up who are punished when abortion is hard to obtain legally.

Abortion is nobodies business except the mother, the father and the doctor.

I don't understand why anyone else thinks they have a say. Not your baby, none of your business. Stay out of it. Leave these poor women who have to go through an awful time alone.

Definitely would not sign. Just what fran said.

Oh dear - just a lot of insults then.

Firstly, I would repeat that I am NOT talking about stopping abortions which would be necessary on medical grounds, as I made plain. And of course, there will always be exceptions.

Secondly, I am NOT a fanatical anti-abortionist. I'm referring here to the late abortions of perfectly healthy foetuses, who would become viable, living, babies if left to go full-term. It's a moral issue for me - and became one once I saw the horrific way that late abortions have to be carried out.

No, I do NOT 'hate women' (being one myself!)

And I'm sorry, mcem, that you do not approve of, or like any of my other blogs. I would take issue with your reasons, but you're quite entitled to your opinion. (A bit rude, and unnecessary though, don't you think?)

Yes, I am a writer, but would anyone seriously think that I would consider setting up a Government Petition on abortion, just to sell more books (which, incidentally, have nothing at all to do with this subject)?

I do hope that 'cold' and 'gillybob' are right with their statistics.

Thank you all for your opinions. I will bear them in mind.

Not "a lot of insults" Lyndiloo but a strong and emphtic "No" to your petition. As someone who knew what went on before the law on abortion was changed, how many poor women died from back street abortions I know if women really want to abort a child they will. No one should be denied an abortion because they don't find out they are pregnant until after 10 weeks. It is a tragedy when babies have to be aborted, but it is a tragedy for the woman who has to take the decision and no one should have the right to make that decision more difficult.

franjess2000 I'm not sure that is right. I don't think the father has any say in whether the baby is aborted or not.

I wouldn't have an abortion, yes, I have been in the situation where the doctor told me I should but I didn't.

If others wish to do so that is up to them but I do think we need to change a culture of using abortion as a means of birth control for the sake of the mother as much as anything else. I know it was a long time ago but my NCT teacher was a theatre sister at the local abortion clinic and she found it very upsetting when quite young women came in for their 3rd, 4th or 5th TOP. What was that doing to their bodies? I have a friend, now in her late 50s, who had an abortion when she was 18 and was never able to conceive again. No one ever seems to talk about this side of abortion. What about the psychological effects on the women concerned or do they simply shrug it off as just another day? I would expect that they would often wonder what their child would have been like.

I absolutely oppose this. Ten weeks is too early to be confident about the health and development of the foetus. And many women have entirely valid reasons to choose against proceeding with pregnancy even if the foetus is expected to be perfectly healthy. I support the right of the mother to choose to terminate, certainly later than 10 weeks, and much later if developmental or congenital problems are identified.

Lynd I woukd be really interested in seeing your statistics. for ‘late abortions of perfectly healthy foetuses’. Yes you do are women because anyone male or female who would force a woman to carry a baby to term against her wishes is a hater of women. And even worse is a hater of poor women who can’t afford the discreet doctor in his private practice. What on Earth makes you ‘hope’ that cold and gilly got their statistics right - you haven’t given on piece of factual evidence in your posts.

Ten weeks is way too early in the pregnancy to be a cut off point.

Many women, especially young teenage girls and older women nearer menopause do not even realise that they’re pregnant until way beyond ten weeks.

Abortion is not a decision women take easily and quickly. Medical checks, scans etc and counselling all take time.

The existing time limits seem to be generally accepted as workable. It’s a difficult decision and the situation should not be made harder for women.

Nonnie - I don't understand why any woman would eschew contraception including the MAP so often that she'd undergo several TOP procedures within a few years. She's putting her body and mind through so much extra stress and risk.
I do understand that some relationships or lifestyles, sadly, preclude regular use of condoms or contraceptive pills. Other contraceptives needing less organising are available. What a sad dilemma some women find themselves experiencing.

So Lyndiloo you didn't get the response you hoped for so accused posters of being "insulting". If you read the posts carefully you will see posters giving their opinions of why they disagree with you, I didn't see any "insults".

If you read my post you will see that I personally don't agree with abortion but that doesn't give me, or anyone else, the right to dictate to another woman. Making the decision to have an abortion is not one which women take lightly, I would think there would be a lot of careful and heart wrenching thought. It is not a decision a woman should have to take within a few weeks of finding out she is pregnant.

Ten weeks is far too soon, twenty-four weeks is too late.

In my experience I do not think most women take the decision lightly to have an abortion, and I feel ultimately it should be a women's right to choose. I started training as a student nurse just prior to 1967 Abortion Act and saw women die with what would now be described as sepsis, after back street abortions. Throughout my career I never saw a late abortion performed without very good reasons which included severe foetal abnormality or risk to maternal health.

Thanks Lazigirl. I don't know anyone who took the decision lightly to have an abortion, either in my personal or working life. I also agree that throughout my work I never saw a late abortion performed without very good reason.
I know one woman who had three terminations, she had mental health problems. Who are these women who use abortion as contraception? I don't know any of them, either in my work or personal life.
I dislike this judgemental approach to women and girls.

This seems like such a dangerous proposal to me, almost like a step back in time. I can understand why some believe that 24 weeks is too late, I go backwards and forwards on that one (I am obviously only speaking when it comes to an unwanted pregnancy, when it comes to the health of mother or baby it should never be deemed ‘too late’). But 10 weeks seems very early. It hardly gives the time to make a well informed and considered decision. Plus, as others have said, what about the mothers who don’t discover their pregnancy until after this time?
I know of several women who’ve had a abortions, for various reasons. The only ‘late’ abortion was under doctors advice, and none of the women took the decision lightly. I don’t know anyone who has had multiple abortions as a form of contraception. I’d be curious of the statistics on that?
I definitely wouldn’t sign this petition, it feels like a very negative step for women.

Lyndiloo, I did not insult you with my post. I think you owe an apology to the writers of the measured responses here.

As for it being a moral issue, I don't see much that's moral about women dying from terminations that have been deemed illegal. That's what would happen, you know. Abortion would still exist; it would just take place in less safe circumstances.

I wonder if this petition will meet with the same astounding success as your previous petition to prevent child sized dolls being sold in case people had sex with them

I must have been one of the first women to have a pregnancy terminated, on medical advice, in 1967. It took until I was 12 weeks pregnant to get a complete diagnosis and organise a hospital bed. In those days a pregnancy was confirmed by sending off a urine sample for a Hogben test and waiting two weeks for the result, but even in these days of over-the-counter instant tests, it can take a long time before it is confirmed or even suspected that all is not well with a foetus.

Incidentally, at the time, I read up on the abortion statistics of various countries. The reported statistics varied from zero in several countries (with their official heads firmly in the sand) to the Soviet Union with an average ( an average with many women being above or below child-bearing age, or single and sexually inactive) of 6 per woman. I could only think that contraception must be completely unavailable there!

Lindyloo, I really don't think my post or others were in your words "insulting". In your initial post, you asked for what support you could expect from other GN's. Many took the time to reply and give their opinions. I think you have perhaps been taken aback by the lack of support your petition would get by fellow GN's and find that hard to take, so see others points of view as being insulting to your point of view because they differ. I don't think anyone was being deliberately insulting to you.

Lyndiloo - sorry your first post on Gransnet has met with such a negative response, but it does give you an idea what little support you would have for a petition.

Ireland, in the early 1980s, when abortion was illegal, decided to make sure it stayed that way by putting a clause into the constitution protecting the “unborn”. It didn’t stop thousands of abortions, as many women travelled to Britain for abortions and in recent times have been buying abortion pills on the internet.

There have been a number of difficult high profile cases resulting from abortion ban, including a woman who died partly because of medical staff reluctant to terminate the miscarrying pregnancy because there was still a heartbeat. Now public opinion is swinging to support unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks, and later if medically necessary.

If by any chance your petition was successful, it would probably only export the problem, as women would travel to other parts of Europe for later abortions, which are thankfully quite rare.

Lyndi so what would you suggest happens to babies from forced pregnancies? Are you volunteering to support them finacially or even to take them all in and care for them? Its a case of pro lifers who aren't at all interested in the end result of a pregnancy just their own idea of "morals" surely morals should include not bringing more children into the world to live in poverty or worse ?

Lindyloo
People may have disagreed with you but I don't believe anyone has been rude.

Given that there are many women reading or posting on Gransnet, there is every likelihood that at least some of them have had an abortion (in fact, one poster has said that she had one for medical reasons). As you have posted material which, in effect, calls them murderers and speaks of women having abortions so as not to "inconvenience" themselves, I think you have got off rather lightly.

I would imagine the vast majority of women who have undergone abortions have done so for very good reasons personal to them. Some of them may have found the decision very difficult and distressing.

For the very few women who have had multiple abortions, I think this suggests that they have emotional or mental health issues. Would you really want to force any woman - let alone a woman who is already emotionally unstable or traumatised - to continue with a pregnancy and go through labour against her wishes?

In my view, women - not the state - have the right to control their own bodies. It is generally women who are left to nurture and care for the child and if they cannot, the state has to intervene. But the state isn't doing a great job in caring for the thousands of children that it is already responsible for. Research shows that looked-after children are more likely to experience heightened feelings of social isolation/difficulties in making attachments. They are also significantly over-represented in the prison population.