BREXIT? Am I just plain stupid?

You're doing it again Loopy.

As I see it, we signed up to a trading block but increasingly power has been centralised in Brussels. Yes I know our government took us in and now our government is taking us out.

It isn't just that our government took us in it is the government you and everyone else voted on that took us in, agree to changes and had worked with the EU in a democratic way until now. You and every other voter in this country had a hand in it. It wasn't done to us without our say so.

I really resent the leave voters attempt to make out that none of it was to do with them.

Ddraig, you scare me. Please enlighten us, when exactly were we ”.. an oasis of calm in a sea of absolute chaos, thriving, prosperous and a proud independent, sovereign nation.” Is it a quote from Paradise Lost?

Hollycat, you say: ...”This is exactly what "buying a pig in a poke" means - buying something unseen. Who does that?” Can't you see that that is exactly what we did with the referendum. We had no idea what was involved. We were told a pack of lies, that's all. Yet, we bought the pig. ”The blind leading the blind" also springs to mind”.

David Davies has warned EU not to ”put short-term politics before the prosperity of its people”. Surely, David Cameron did just that when he called the Referendum.

Greta, I think it's a quote from Boris Johnson. No idea where he got it from.

I love it, Donald Tusk saying that he really appreciates Davis's sense of humour.

greta love your post

[dj] just seen your reply

that was meant to be

Look what we will be missing out on if we leave the EU.
An interesting Q&A with Ian Dunt.

www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/11/17/everything-you-need-to-know-about-lexit-in-five-minutes

And if we do have to leave, here's another good idea.

www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2017/11/16/a-one-off-wealth-tax-would-pay-for-the-brexit-bill

Who owns the money in tax havens?

gabriel-zucman.eu/offshore/

So; the word is that we've got to have a Canadian style agreement. Can anyone explain what that means and also how will if affect the situation in Ireland etc.

"Canadian style agreement. "
Is that the one where the EU wanted to make a deal with Canada, but one country (Belgium) wouldn't agree, so held up the deal for 2+ years?

Yes, fortunately. Well done the Walloons.
It's the Canadian equivalent of the TTIP, which lots of people wanted to stop. The TTIP is what will allow the US to sell us GM food, and dodgy chicken.

The UK government was one of the main advocates for CETA and TTIP.
It's a bit worrying today that Fox has said that parliament will have no say over trade agreements, just the government, and in fact just the one department.

Something else to fight then. Will it never end? The main problem is have the former disgraced loon as the trade secretary whose competence knows no beginning and whose politics puts him with the tiny minority in the Tory party.

My question is why on earth did she do it?

Another good Infact article.

infacts.org/mays-flip-flops-dont-stop-keep-coming-please/

Thank you all for your input! Lots of food for thought - appreciate it. I didn’t want to cause any arguments..... ?.

You were a bit optimistic Bluegal!

You didn't cause any arguments, Bluegal. They are ongoing about Brexit.

An interesting read by John Gummer about his time as Minister of the Environment.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/16/britain-got-its-way-eu-brexiteers?CMP=share_btn_link

This thread has had most interesting facts and opinions. Yes there has been disagreement but it has not degenerated into nastiness. Thank you Blue gal.

This is worth reading. It sounds very much like some of the arguments on Gransnet.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/11/17/brexit-will-deliver-a-liquidity-crisis-that-will-make-2008-look-like-a-half-hearted-warm-up-act/

Thanks for that Jen - it all looks like such a mess.

Yes, I agree.
I've just read this from the New European for light relief.

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/brex-factor-nigel-farage-1-5282953

It comes with a warning. Don't read number 1; a bad picture to have in your head.

Apparently Tim Martin has just put Brexit beer mats in all his Wetherspoons pubs.
It will be interesting to see what happens to his profits; probably a better indicator of how we feel about it than all the studies done so far.

I've just had to leave a local history facebook page because a reference to a German Market has instigated a load of anti German comments that would be more at home on a Britain First page . Haven't really come across this before and found it quite upsetting.