BREXIT? Am I just plain stupid?

I’m not surprised tegan

Why is Tim Martin pro BRexit?

I think it is time to stop whinging, however we voted individually. It is clear that the government feels obliged to go with the result (even though it was a slender one) to keep the promise made by DC's administration.

End of whinging - start of PLANNIG I think. We need intelligent skilled negotiators and financial planners in action.

But we haven't got any, luckygirl, if Davis and Fox are anything to go by.

I have repeatedly asked this question on so many of the Brexit threads and I am still struggling to see a 'concrete' answer as to how we can go down the EEA / EFTA route.

How can you be a member of the EEA / EFTA which means you have to abide by the 4 Pillars/Freedoms , the ‘four pillars/ freedoms’ of the European Union ?

The 4 Pillars/Freedoms are the freedom of movement of goods, people, services and capital over borders.

The Free Movement of People is the issue and the Labour Party and the Conservatives have said the Free Movement of People it will end. I am however totally confused as Labour keep changing it's mind it would appear.

The EU has stated we " cannot cherry pick" and the 4 Pillars/Freedoms are 'non negotiable".

Switzerland had a vote to reduce immigration not so long ago but was told it had to 'toe the line' and accept the Free Movement of People. It did.

Unless the EU shifts it's position on the 4 Pillars / Freedoms , totally unlikely, how can the UK remain a member of the EU/EFTA/EEA and stay in the Single Market?

Genuine question .

Actually most of the people who would answer you are not bothered as we want to stay in, so no point in bothering to answer.

That’s a reply?!

We can’t POGS but nobody here wants to say it.

Actually, we can. We have another referendum on the EU and we stay in.

durhamjen

"We have another referendum on the EU and we stay in".

That is at least an answer. I thought you could provide some facts to put me straight as I am genuinely confused as to why/how the EEA is repeatedly put forward by posters as being an option. I was hoping for 'factual' evidence however not just a hypothetical referendum .

Tegan / Whitewave do you have any 'concrete' answers for me to understand where/why/how you say the UK can stay in the EEA as things stand?

Is this good news or bad?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/17/exclusive-david-davis-could-quit-frozen-brexit-strategy-civil/

Can you give me some factual evidence of how the UK will be better off out of the EU, either POGS or lemongrove, as we are naming names?
Not just hypothetical.

I was listening to Any Questions as I drove home in the rain just now, and the words the "major players" in the EU (i.e. Germany and France) occurred several times in the discussions about the EU and Brexit. It was clear that everyone thought that they had the biggest influence on policy and on the Brexit talks.

So.........maybe this is part of why people voted out. If the EU were functioning as it should then there would be no major players, and all voices would be equal.

well my country voted remain or 62% of the people who voted did and we're being taken out against our will ..so ANY way we can reamain will be good.Brexit is a nightmare for us,500 MILLION potential customers gone in one go!!

If/when the UK leaves, Luckygirl, it will be Germany who picks up the majority of the deficit caused by the lack of UK funding, so they are the major players.

Also, it needs 21 of the 27 countries to vote for anything in the Brexit negotiations, but it has to be 65% of the population, which also means that Germany and France are big players.

Scots directly affected, badly according to them, by EU fisheries policy voted out. I was listening to Jon Holbrook arguing that there has been no actual British debate about agricultural and fisheries policy since we entered the EEC. All the rules have been decided indirectly. He argues that getting out of the EU will improve our democracy with regard to agricultural and fisheries policy.

Most of the well educated Brexiteers (Holbrook is a barrister) I've listened to are concerned about direct democracy and they argue that being in the EU reduces that because of technocrats and bureaucracy. He argues that Leavers voted not for "democracy fettered by officialdom" but for democracy.

Seems to me a lot of Remainers actually fear the will of the people rather than rejoicing in it.

durhamjen

"Can you give me some factual evidence of how the UK will be better off out of the EU, either POGS or lemongrove, as we are naming names?

Not just hypothetical."

Why are you asking me ? Don't you remember apologising for stating on a previous Brexit I was a Brexiteer and therefore making a mistake in your assumption !

If I had ever stated the UK will be better off out of the EU I would have given you my reason by I have never made that statement/comment.

As for 'naming names' I am asking a question to those who have made statements/comments , no more or no less than ALL posters do from time to time, including yourself. Why would I ask Tom, Dick or Harry to give me a reason to understand what Bill, Ben and the Flower Pot Man said.

Thank you for answering my question and I presume you are saying the only way to stay in the EEA is to hold another Referendum as you have 'so far' not given me anything else to work with , at least that is how I view your last few posts.

If we have Henry V111 rules it will be democracy fettered by officialdom of the highest order.
Did they want our democracy ruled by people who dodge taxes?

POGS, I'm asking you because you and lemon asked me.

If you want to understand Brexit this is a good place to start.

en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Brexit/Summary

If Scotland is so badly affected by being in the EU why did Scotland vote to remain?

It's the Scottish fishermen who think that they are badly affected by being in the EU who voted to leave, Tegan2, and some of the farmers. Overall, 62% of the population voted to remain, which we see as being somewhat more 'overwhelming' an expression of the will of the people than the 52% of the UK voters who wanted to leave!

If we have Henry VIII rules surely we will be doing the very thing that so many castigated the EU for - the way it is run - handing authority over to the administration. I always said I was about 75% for remaining and the governance structure was the only thing that kept me at 75%. Why leave if we have to put or own Parliamentary democracy in this position to do it?

Here's another good website for reading about neoliberalism.

braveneweurope.com
Lots of interesting articles on it.

We are where we are. Dave (the remainer) gave us the vote and if he had taken the line that no matter what the result he would support the will of the people he would still be PM and arguably a more able leader to take us forward than Theresa. History. Now it's obvious that EU majority need us so are making things as difficult as possible.

So what? That's their job.