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Why Labour is haemorrhaging

(87 Posts)
thatbags Wed 06-Jul-16 19:09:40

Insightful article from Quillette. Comments interesting too.

An extract:
"In Britain, the task is to marry metropolitan modernity with English small-c conservative culture, and to fuse them into a common sense of national purpose. This would mean acknowledging and incorporating all the things both London and Brussels elites have dismissed as anachronisms: tradition, a respect for settled ways of life, a sense of place and belonging, a desire for home and rootedness, the continuity of relationships at work and in one’s neighbourhood."

obieone Wed 06-Jul-16 19:22:40

Possibly the best article I have ever read.

DaphneBroon Wed 06-Jul-16 20:13:15

Is Labour haemorrhaging? Twisting itself into knots admittedly, but better now than 6 months before an election. Get it sorted, provide a meaningful and effective Opposition while the Conservatives keep on digging an ever deeper hole?

obieone Wed 06-Jul-16 20:20:31

The Conservatives have always been divided on the EU. So nothing new there.

Does anyone think that Labour will split into two?

I didnt used to think so, but am now not so sure.

But on the other hand, Corbyn was supposed to be all together with the poor, but he campaigned the other way.

Anniebach Wed 06-Jul-16 20:29:49

No, labour will come through this , if they can Corbyn out , if not , I don't know

DaphneBroon Wed 06-Jul-16 20:37:38

But on the other hand, Corbyn was supposed to be all together with the poor, but he campaigned the other way

A simplistic if not spurious comment - could you explain in what way Corbyn's sympathies have not been with what you call "the poor" (do you just mean ordinary people? Working people? The unemployed?)
What campaigning are you talking about anyway?

obieone Wed 06-Jul-16 20:42:43

The referendum.
eg the types of poor who were interviewed on the Panorama programme.
[You too know what I mean, so no further detail necessary].

DaphneBroon Wed 06-Jul-16 20:46:18

hmm

obieone Wed 06-Jul-16 21:11:05

If you are not one of "those" posters, then I apologise.

Tegan Wed 06-Jul-16 22:08:17

'Those posters'?

thatbags Wed 06-Jul-16 22:30:25

That would be the ideal situation, broon. Somehow I don't feel too hopeful about it right now. Seems to me Labour is almost having another militant tendency moment what with Momentum and Corbyn just not getting it about needing MPs' support/belief in his leadership skills.

thatbags Wed 06-Jul-16 22:30:54

What leadership skills?

Anniebach Wed 06-Jul-16 22:32:55

Corbyn and Momentum certaintly are getting it ,it's their goal

durhamjen Wed 06-Jul-16 22:52:18

"As Jon Cruddas’s inquiry into the dismal 2015 defeat found, Labour is now toxic with more socially conservative voters who are concerned about immigration, welfare, patriotism and Europe. Of those voters, Cruddas found that an overwhelming number consider immigration the single most important challenge facing both the party and the country.

But even though this problem was flagged long before the referendum campaign began, Labour’s leaders and the bulk of its MPs don’t actually seem to understand why so many Labour voters are anxious about immigration: first, competition in terms of jobs and the downward effect on wages; second, the impact on public services and the allocation of social housing or welfare benefits; and third, the loss of tradition, culture and community. Among Labour’s old supporters, the second and the third reason are the most significant."

From the article. Not exactly the sort of people that would vote labour anyway.
The second paragraph is just myth. There is very little downward effect on wages. The impact on public services is positive, as so many immigrants work in them, and add to the pot. If our culture and tradition are disappearing, it's our fault for not making more of them. I prefer a mix of culture and tradition anyway. Loss of community is because of a loss of community services, lead by the government cuts, and not caused by immigration.

"Between 2004-2006 and 2012-2014 the ratio of foreign-born to UK-born workers rose by about 8% in low-skilled and semi-skilled service occupations across the UK as a whole. This was the largest change in any of the four occupational groups classified by the report.

So for a low-skilled or semi-skilled occupation paid £8 per hour, this would work out to a drop of between 1 and 2 pence per hour, each year.

Many issues have an affect on the wages of the lowest paid. Academics commonly list global changes in technology and trade, or national differences in education, attitudes to gender, and union activity as having a much more significant effect than having a higher proportion of immigrants in the workforce."

From fullfact.

durhamjen Wed 06-Jul-16 23:04:04

According to the Huffington Post, Labour has 500,000 members now. According to the New Statesman it has 600,000 today.
Not exactly haemorrhaging.
The next prime minister is going to be chosen by the Tory membership said to be about 150,000.

DaphneBroon Wed 06-Jul-16 23:39:48

Don't knock it dj, obieone says it is possibly the best article she has ever read, so don't disillusion her. wink

durhamjen Wed 06-Jul-16 23:46:40

Must have missed that bit, Daphne.

DaphneBroon Wed 06-Jul-16 23:48:15

Today at 19.22
smile

thatbags Thu 07-Jul-16 06:51:03

£3 Corbynistas (not even in their thousands) do not a Labour Party make. A 'leader' who does not lead his Party's MPs and who can't provide a robust Opposition is not a leader.

Still, it's all good political theatre so one might as well enjoy it while it lasts.

obieone Thu 07-Jul-16 06:58:39

You are one of those posters, DaphneBroon, I was right.

obieone Thu 07-Jul-16 07:01:34

Fullfact is so biased as to be almost unbelievable frankly.

mcem Thu 07-Jul-16 07:49:34

Since I didn't see that Panorama programme perhaps you could explain to me about the 'types of poor' interviewed.
I also didn't understand the comment about Corbyn campaigning against the poor.
By asking such questions do I inevitably become one of 'those' posters?

obieone Thu 07-Jul-16 08:06:14

www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1227611-Panorama-Why-We-Voted-to-Leave-Britain-Speaks

If you wanted to watch clips of the programme you will see, if you dont already know.

Anniebach Thu 07-Jul-16 08:17:23

Corbyn didn't fight for the poor did be? He didn't take to the debates , he just seemed to tour the country gathering members for Momentum , which it seems he has done

DaphneBroon Thu 07-Jul-16 08:55:23

www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1227611-Panorama-Why-We-Voted-to-Leave-Britain-Speaks

If you wanted to watch clips of the programme you will see,

I'm afraid this link just takes us round the houses back to the Panorama thread here on GN.