Why Labour is haemorrhaging

She isn't going to win trisher, I admire her for putting the party before her career, Corbyn has the unions, momentum, far left and left votes , no way can she win, at least it will be clearer the amount of support Corbyn has , I respect her for this

Because it sounds like that comedy sketch-trying to prove I am more working class than you are-"eh when I grew up we had nothing." Now that is old Labour and it won't win elections.

Aw trisha, to be fair to the woman, she just spoke of her working class parents, going to a good comp and then university and how she wants this for all , are you allowing your support for Corbyn affect you this much? what is wrong with an MP speaking of their background ?

My mum was etc my dad was etc, I come from etc I had a comprehensive, a good, comprehensive education. By which time I had switched off. Who the f* cares where she comes from- it's what she intends to do that mattes- no talk of policy at all.

What did she say that makes you say she is self centred trisher?

Yes, but I watched Angela Eagle on TV this morning and sorry she has less charisma than Corbyn, seemed very self-centered and has the most irritating voice. Someone should have coached her to deepen it a bit, like they did Mrs Thatcher.

Yes trisha and it's all they are questioned about. But the leadership has to be sorted before policies can be put to the public ,I wish they would get this sorted out , it is so worrying isn't it?

They seem to be pursuing their own agenda Anniebach, squabbling about who leads the party. They probably think they care but it isn't coming across, more "I'm the King of the castle, you're the dirty rascal" than concern for ordinary people.

trisher, you know other MP's do not share his concerns?

Eloethan an excellent post. I think Corbyn's speeches on his stress, and real life stress, show he knows what ordinary people's problems are. If only other MPs did.

Eloethan A very good post. I agree with so much of what you have said, particularly about the reforming radical Labour policies in the past but sadly they have now lost their way becoming a "Tory light" party. I really want to support a party that challenges the Tory agenda because no matter who becomes their leader they will no doubt be continuing the policies that have so disadvantaged those who can least afford it - particularly if we are to go into a recession as a result of Brexit.

Is Corbyn a great man with power thrust upon him by momentum?

Tegan, Don't know much about curing anything, but I hear what you say about Tim Farron and also what Anniebach says about good MP's

I just wish they would nail their colours to the mast an come out of hiding instead of squabbling about who leads what
Perhaps it would do if the Mays and Eagles and Leadsoms and the other malcontents realised that Great men do not seek power, they have power thrust upon them.
Maybe that would start to rebuild trust

The writer of the article says that Labour now only attracts the support of a small section of the electorate - "university graduates, public sector workers and certain ethnic minorities". And the author was Adrian Plats - a reader in Politics at the University of Kent, so he's an academic himself. I did not go to university, neither did my son or my husband but we all vote Labour. Most of my working life was spent in the private sector, as has my son's past 18 years of employment. My Dad didn't go to university and worked all his life in a white collar job in the private sector - he voted Labour.

It's daft trying to second guess who is going to vote what on the basis of where they were educated or work or live. There are, of course, certain trends but if it is suggested that all we can hope to expect politically is, broadly speaking, a continuation of the status quo, with just a b it of tinkering around at the edges, then I think that is most depressing.

Previous Labour governments were brave and ambitious, despite many challenges. They unapologetically put forward radical policies - such as the creation of the NHS and the introduction of state pensions and a welfare "safety net" - and in later years brought in the Open University and all manner of legislation to fight all types of discrimination.

My own feeling is that the Labour Party is now far too timid in its ambitions and too willing to follow a Tory-lite agenda. Of course, if people see no radical difference between the parties, they are more likely to go along with what the newspaper headlines and mainstream media tell them - and it is common knowledge that these news sources are, in the main, controlled by powerful supporters of the Conservative Party.

It is not people like Corbyn who has "ceased to represent those people it was set up to defend". It is the MPs who are now trying to get rid of him - those that by and large went along with the austerity agenda, who failed to challenge the lie that it was over-spending that caused the difficulties here in 2008 - when nearly every other country in Europe - and the US - were hit by a disaster precipitated by the financial institutions. Most people agree now that the PFI contracts entered into by "New Labour" as part of their touchy-feely "new relationship" with big business and privatisation, has been a complete disaster. Most people are also angry that the MPs in this country were duped into, or too scared or lazy to question, the illegal invasion of another country that posed no threat to us. All these decisions were supported by the sort of MPs who are now trying to kick Corbyn out.

The writer also says:

"In Britain, the task is to marry metropolitan modernity with English small-c conservative culture, and to fuse them into a common sense of national purpose. This would mean acknowledging and incorporating all the things both London and Brussels elites have dismissed as anachronisms: tradition, a respect for settled ways of life, a sense of place and belonging, a desire for home and rootedness, the continuity of relationships at work and in one’s neighborhood"

Presumably then, even the Conservative Party doesn't represent "conservative" values. I don't believe they have provided a "sense of national purpose". On the contrary, I think they have demonised different groups of people in order to push through their policies, leading to a divided country where various groups are pitted against each other to fight for diminishing resources.

And which party has promoted "a respect for settled ways of life, a sense of place and belonging, a desire for home and rootedness, the continuity of relationships at work and in one’s neighbourhood." I would say, not a party that has encouraged zero hours contracts which leave people with no idea whether they will achieve a full week's work; who have done nothing to help the growing number of renters to achieve a fair rent and some security of tenure beyond one year; or which has encouraged the sell off of social housing and the introduction of a bedroom tax which has forced many families to move regularly and for greater distances.

The reference to globalisation is an important one. I met up with former work colleagues yesterday and was told that the international law firm where I worked for several years is now planning, through some complicated arrangement, to move all its business services - IT, Marketing, Accounts - to Warsaw. This appears to be a growing trend and presumably our exit from the EU will make very little difference to this sort of outsourcing/undercutting.

I agree with you trisher that there has always been people of all political persuasions that will turn on immigrants when times get tough - and, like you, I believe the Labour Party should stand firm against those sort of views even if it means losing their votes.

obieone I don't know what you're talking about when you speak of Labour "elites" on Gransnet. People generally don't fit into neat categories of political thought. I would describe myself as on the left but that doesn't mean that my thoughts and ideas will be exactly the same as someone else on the left. I can quite understand why Daphne got a bit heated - it isn't very nice referring to someone as "one of those posters" - what exactly do you mean by that?

I firmly believe there are MP's who entered the house because they want to do good for he country.

Stephen Crabb who says homosexuality can be cured? I agree about the lies [I still can't get over that].I do trust Tim Farron which is why I'm going to join the LibDems.

Does anybody out there think that we have an politician that are worth a light be they Labour or Conservative or whoever Stephen Crabb recently said that the Westminster political classes have lost the trust of the people and following a referendum campaign in which it would have been easier to find the Holy Grail than the tiniest modicum of truth I would suggest he was right and the whole damn lot were lackluster and self serving
I recently heard someone exclaim "Guy Fawkes Where are you when we need you the most" and whilst i am not a violent man I applaud the sentiment behind the words

Labour and Lib Dems have apparently increased membership by 30% since EU result. I would consider this a surge rather than haemorrhage, and like Bluecat don't think this is just down to Corbyn in Labour's case. I do think the PLP has behaved badly with terrible timing, but I think the split among LP members is exaggerated and I believe if there was a general election tomorrow the Tories would lose.

Is it possible that there are 3 different camps in the Labour Party?
The Corbynites, the Blairites, and those like Ab who are now not in either camp?

Yes I do thstbags , thank you

Do you mean SNP, ab?

I'd agree with that AB - the rot started with Blaire and continued through Brown.

And in my opinion, it was not the fault of Milliband that Scotland turned SDP

Based on the article, and grans on gransnet who can't see the problem just like the article says, I think the Labour Party will split into two fairly even parts, numbers wise.

Ah, that figures.
Labour did get an absolute kicking in Scotland at the last General Election.
IMHO they paid the price for a London-centric "champagne Socialist " Labour Party as typified by the Millibands , which had absolutely nothing to say to Scotland.