little Englander

Not all the Welsh speak Welsh.

grumppa- you comment is so simplistic, and I have to say an emphatic NO- the fact they were speaking English initially does NOT mean at all that English was their first language- at all. The language chosen at any given time will depend on lots of things, the mix of the group and the context. I had many French friends in the UK and we always jumped from one language to the other depending on context, and also who else was in the group. Although our children and DHs would undeerstand and speak French well, we may well speak English together when they were in the room, but switch to French when they were not. And not consciously either- it just happens naturally.

And of course so many words do not translate at all- so would always be thrown in the mix. We could speak French together but still say bits in English, like 'toad in the hole' for the dinner that night, or kids studying for GCSEs, etc- because there is not equivalent in French. When you are naturally and fully bilingual, this happens all the time- and there is no conscious decision about it, or malice, or intended exclusion- at all. I speak read, listen to French and English all the time, and switch from one minute to the next. Again, not boasting- just a way of life. Often watch the BBC, whilst reading a book in French, picking the phone and speaking in French- then ask a question to OH in English for caller, reply to him/her in French- etc. If you asked me which language at I just spoken- I wouldn't have a clue which.

The reason so many of our immigrant children were such brilliant linguists- as they heard/understood/spoke 2 or 3 languages from birth - and are not fixated on one word for each thing, and one pattern (grammar), etc.

If other posters are to be believed, they switched because they didn't want the English to understand what they were saying. But the presumption must be that even if bilingual their preferred language was English, or they would have been speaking Welsh ab initio.

Unless their mother tongue wad Latin........

No I am not saying that Ana, it is more likely as it was Anglesey where the accent is so very strong , the group lowered their voices and it sounded Welsh was being spoken, I am sure Ceesnan didn't strain her ears to listen into a private conversation ,

My DH was born and bred in Wales. His parents were too. They did not speak Welsh at all. My understanding was that Welsh is only spoken as a first language in parts of north Wales. Is that incorrect?

Just a btw story: my dad did some army training (National Service just post-war) in north Wales. He said there were lots of Welsh speakers and that he met some Polish prisoners of war who spoke Polish and Welsh but no English because the local people all spoke Welsh.

grumppa, I am certain as it was Anglesey and the group were Welsh their first language was Welsh

Bit like Scottish Gaelic only being spoken as a first language in. some of the more extreme western parts of Scotland.

Soz. My post was meant to follow straight after my other.

There are a lot of English people living on Anglesey. The Wylfa Power Station employs hundreds of them.

Quite thatbags, and CaernaFonshire is mainly Welsh speaking , I assume Ceesnan isn't a teenager so her father would have spoken Welsh, unless his family moved to England

I an learning so much from you Ana, your knowledge of Wales is impressive

grumppa- again, NO, not necessarily. The group may have contained some whose dominant language was English and some whose dominant language was Welsh- whoever initiated the conversation would have chosen the language (NOT consciously, just the way it is) and others followed, then switched at some point.

Unless you are bilingual, it may not make sense to you. I remember being in Strasbourg with 6th Formers at a café, and at the next table were 2 business men having a very animated conversation. One was speaking French, and the other German- they seemed totally unaware of this- made no difference to them. they were both bilingual but one with French dominance, and the other German. Happens all the time in Switzerland, especially in linguistic border/bilingual towns.

Yes, I think we've all got the point that it's Caernarfon with an F not a V now...

Thinking about it, I think we do that from time to time, DH and I- I speak in French and he replies in English- without even noticing. I also know many anglo-saxon expats here who insist on speaking English only to the children, and who complain bitterly that when the kids start school and learn the local language, they reply in that language, and not English.

I imagine that some Welsh parents speak Welsh to their children- and at some point the kids rebel and reply in English (possibly because of the bullying and image).

No need for sarcasm either, Annie. To hear you talk everyone would believe that the whole of Anglesey is populated by people whose first language is Welsh, and most of the rest of Wales as well. That's just not true.

Just being helpful Ana, you above all would know there is no v in the Welsh alphabet , v is f, and f is ff , but you know this being such an knowledgable person of the country

I have a copy of the 1911 census with DH's family listed on it. They lived in Caernarfonshire, (he was born there) and on the 1911 census they had to list 'Language Spoken'
It says 'English'.
They ran three shops and presumably must have got by quite successfully without speaking Welsh.

I do speak a bit of Wenglish myself and am thinking of learning Cornish.

ps Wenglish is Welsh with a terrible English accent

Thsnk you again Ana, I didn't know the entire population of Wales didn't speak Welsh

DH and DD's FIL can have a very animated conversation in two different languages.
Neither understands the other but they have a great time having a beer together.

SIL finds it hilarious (he speaks both).
Not Welsh btw

Not sure why you're taking that attitude Annie (you'll never be 'bach' to me!). I know something about certain parts of North Wales and can assure you that what I said about Wylfa Power Station is true. The same applies to many businesses in the area.

gj, what do you mean by bullying and image? Why would it be bullying that made a Welsh child learn to speak English? Surely it's a good idea for Welsh speakers to learn English given how few people in the islands of Great Britain speak Welsh?

I'm baffled by the reference to bullying. Bullying by whom?

Get what you mean about people speaking in diff languages to each other though. When I could speak a bit of Spanish (sadly v rusty now), I was able to hold a conversation with a Brazilian friend who was speaking Portuguese.

And do read my post again. I did not say that the entire population of Wales doesn's speak Welsh. Where did you learn your post-twisting technique? It's very impressive...

I imagine that some Welsh parents speak Welsh to their children- and at some point the kids rebel and reply in English (possibly because of the bullying and image).
There is absolutely no bullying going on about children speaking Welsh in Wales - on the contrary, they all learn it as a compulsory language. My DGD do, that is why I speak (or sing) a bit, being taught by a 4 year old.