Am I such a Rogue?

In describing a family member, our younger son used the phrase "not self aware."

Look after your GC but be careful what you say in front of them.

Don't offer opinions, unless asked.

Good luck

My son's girl friend is behaving towards her mother just as your daughter is behaving towards you. Mother has also offered to go to co-councelling (she already goes on her own) but daughter won't. We end up with some of the fallout but just do not want to take sides. I think it's right that you should stop apologising. You've done it at least once, and if she isn't prepared to accept it, she must live with the consequences. JK Rowling is absolutely right. We could all blame our parents for something or other, but what do people think that will achieve? Try not to be down about this. Carry on as normal and let everything settle. Your relationship isn't up to you anymore, it's up to her.

P.S. She isn't menopausal is she? I know, I know, that's a controversial question! Or is her marriage a mess. Does she hate her job? Not that any of that should be taken out on you.

I really feel for you Quinwa, as I have gone through something similar with my daughter. Her father and I separated when she was 13, and she went through a very difficult few years after that, which included suffering abuse at the hands of her father when I left. At the time I thought I was doing the right thing by her as we'd recently moved to the area, (a long way from 'home') and she'd only just settled in at her new school, made new friends, etc. Never in a MILLION years would I have left her with him had I suspected what would happen. I believed at the time that she would be just as happy with her dad as she was with me, and wouldn't have the trauma of changing school, friends. etc again. Having gone totally off the rails due to her experience, which she obviously blamed me for, she got together with a lad who she later married and had children with. Since the events with her Dad, we have never had an easy relationship, and she always seemed angry with me, which I could totally understand. However, over recent months, she has found herself in an unhappy marriage, and finally plucked up the courage to leave, taking her children with her, but only because there was another man in the background. This was history totally repeating itself, and having continued to stick with her through thick and thin, insults, fallings out, etc., over the years, she has finally realised that I struggled in EXACTLY the same way that she has done, and now that she has left her husband and is in a happy relationship, she is a changed woman, and has finally come back to me as the daughter that I knew and loved as a child.

My advice? Stick with it, don't keep apologising, but be there for her through thick and thin, and hopefully she will eventually realise that you are human, and made mistakes, just as she will inevitably make mistakes in raising her own children.

I think all parents carry some guilt, because we weren't perfect. Since my kids have grown up, the thing that comforts me and relieves my guilt is that they have grown into decent people, able to love and maintain their own relationships. And that the things I felt most guilty about barely figure in their thinking at all. In fact it was a revelation to me when I realised that what I remembered as important incidents or turning points in their lives are often not remembered by them - their memories are of other things. I strongly agree with JK Rowling - there comes a point in every adults life when you have to take responsibility for yourself, your own actions, and own your own feelings, and not allow yourself to have a life that is determined by the past. I also like Carl Jung's quote 'I am not what has happened to me. I am what I choose to become'. Your daughter has a choice about whether she allows her childhood memories and experiences (whether they are accurate or not) to determine her life. In the mean time Qinwa, I hope you are able to follow the good advice that others on Gransnet have offered, about keeping the door open with your daughter, and looking after yourself. Good luck

My 47 year old son still berates me for sending him to school in short trousers, a uniform requirement I might add. Eventually, I got so tired of hearing this I told him if that was the worst thing I had ever done it wasn't so bad so get over it. And he has. Obviously your daughter feels more strongly than this. From time to time I have negative thoughts about my mother and the way we were treated as children , but there is nothing I can do about it. Can I ask, if you have written and apologised do you feel she has a grievance?

Qinwa when your DD's children become teenagers you can have a wry little smile when she 'gets her comeuppance'.

I don't mean that in a horrible fashion, but it is amazing how your DC forget that they weren't perfect teenagers and that there are two sides to the parenting story!

As my children ( now all grown up ) grew up with a practising alcoholic in their formative years,(Ihave now been sober for 30 years) have all things considered appear to love and support me completely, I feel very lucky

instead she sent me a tape on parenting. She now speaks to me with what she's learned from this parenting tape

Oh dear, the arrogance of youth! I don't really mean this unkindly, but they do think they know it all,don't they with their parenting tapes/ handbooks/ workshops and all of that lucrative market.

You can't have made such a bad job of it so I would go along with those who say to stop beating yourself up like GillT57 and I would stop apologising. Unless you actually made her sleep in the cupboard under the stairs, like Harry Potter, what's past is past and most children manage to grow up despite their parents' " mistakes". And as parents we, and she and your SIL all make mistakes.
I don't think she has grown up yet though if she is still apportioning blame for whatever. Smile, say "Nobody's perfect" and console yourself that one day it WILL come back to bite her on the bum. Just look forward to your DGCs teenage years and her menopause and keep well out of the way.

qinwa As you can see from here, you are not alone and I expect many parents (including me) have similar criticisms thrown at them because, although the vast majority of parents try to do their very best for their children, everyone makes mistakes. If you were a truly awful mother, surely your daughter wouldn't feel confident to leave her children in your care.

I think it is unfair of your daughter to keep raking up the past when you have apologised and tried to make amends. Of course, it is your choice to help with your grandchildren but I think your daughter and her husband should recognise they are very fortunate you have made that choice.

I think you might find counselling helpful in giving you the time and space to talk through your feelings and be more able to withstand your daughter's criticisms. It seems to me that at the moment she is holding the threat of further criticism over your head if you dare to disagree with her. Since you have already apologised for any hurt you inadvertently caused, she needs to acknowledge that she's a grown-up now and she can't keep parking all her dissatisfactions at your door.

I hink some counselling for you would help you cope. Its true your daughter is now at an age when she has to put her resentment about her childhood behind her. To keep banging on about it shows her immaturity.

A good tip is to see your daughter -if you get the chance - outside the home. Sitting round the same old kitchen table just gets thoughts going on the same old roundabout. I followed this advice with DD1 and went out with her just shopping and lunch and any complaint I just said yes it was a difficult time for us all -or something like that and changed the subject.

Its not your business how she deals with her brother or whether the children see their Aunty. Life is not a Soap Opera. Many children grow up happily wihout seeing relatives. Some relatives row all the time and family life is better for not seeing then too often.

well said gillybob.

Welcome to GN Quinwa

It is all too easy for your DD to try and pin the blame on her obvious unhappiness on someone else and how convenient it should be her mother.

I would be tempted to ask your daughter a few questions, like for example;

What would she have done differently in your circumstances?
Why (if you were such a poor mother) is she trusting you with her precious children?
At what point does one stop blaming things that happened years ago on today's issues? 10 years, 20 years, 35 years?
If things were so bad why will she not agree to attend some family counseling with you?

None of us are perfect parents. None of us know how to be a parent until the little bundle (of joy or otherwise) arrives. If we have had relatively good parents ourselves we might be lucky enough to have a role model on which to base our parenting, but many of us just make it up as we go along and depending on many other factors, we might make an okay job of it.

I think you still have to be prepared to listen. If it's a case of 'the wrong shoes' or she thinks her brother had better toys! etc then, yes, she should grow up!

If there is something more serious that she finds difficulty coming to terms with then perhaps it needs to be aired, otherwise it will carry on festering.

First sentence of my last post was to jings about her response to stb

Welcome to the forum Qinwa there is a lot if good advice already on here from others.None of us is perfect, including your own daughter.
we did what we could at the time.If she didn't feel it was enough ( and there is always sibling rivalry going on) and nothing specific happened, then what more can you do than apologise?If you have told her that you loved her, and love her still, then I would leave it at that.

Not necessarily, though,.

I agree with stb to an extent because a person could be left with the wrong values and feelings of inadequacy which gives them disadvantages and an inability to cope with situations in their adult lives and relationships.
It takes a very strong person to overcome the difficulties some face in their childhood.

JK Rowling gives the impression of a disadvantaged childhood - whilst no-one can know what goes on in a family home, it was not the impoverished childhood she indicates and, as she became head girl of her school, she showed even then the strength of character she posseses which has seen her through difficulties. Not everyone is that strong.

that was to soon

Then we will agree to disgree. Completely. And vehemently. (on my part)

Stansgran very good post and thank you for the very good quote too. I have often wondered what kind of a job I have made of parenthood, we just blunder along as best as we can I suppose which is surely better than the terrible childhood some on GN have endured. Just what terrible things are you supposed to have done? Not encouraged latent musical talent? Not bought Angel Delight? Worked too much/not worked at all? I think I agree with Jings tell them to grow up and act as parents themselves, perhaps your DD and her husband would like to share their gift for parenting with you? You can't be that awful or you wouldn't be involved in the up bringing of their own children.

I would disagree. Partly because that takes time. And partly because you may have been brought up with wrong instructions, which can take a long time to unlearn.

how I never appreciated or praised her and always critical no matter what she did

It occurs to me, that she is now doing to you, what she says that you did?

You have to write your own maps soon. Once you are an adult you are as capable as anyone else of doing just that.

The quote though, doesnt take into account that the child/adult may likely have been left with a wrong set of maps.

Your daughter sounds like my older sister. She is a wonderful and popular friend but cannot cope with the immediate family. She believes my parents did all sorts of things and didn't want her, didn't love her etc. She is prone to scream at me for no reason and at one stage I had to have counselling to cope with her. She has three failed marriages but is sits she doesn't need counselling.She is very temperamental and never visits our mother. Her children, now grown up, barely know us.
This is all leading up to saying that you have to do what my mother and I have done which is to look after your own well being and the best way to do this is to stop trying to appease her and get on with the rest of your life and have healthy relationships with other people.

Stansgran I hadn't heard that quote from JK Rowling. So very good! (Good post too Sg)

I would be tempted to laugh it off and tell her - and her DH - to grow up.