What or Pardon-Neither!!!!

Well, if we ever need a re-cap we can always dip into Jilly Cooper's 'Class'

'Say again' here....also military family.

I agree with Anya. All this "U and non-U" stuff just perpetuates a climate of snobbery. As long as it is clear what is being said, does it really matter how it is said?

I think how things are said matters a great deal more than what. One can be extremely rude (deliberately) while using words that are usually used politely, and one can be completely non-offensive using words that some regard as rude. Context and manner (body language) are far more important than diction.

I have a relative who is so good at this. Unless you know her very well she can seem to be saying something really pleasant, and being ultra-polite. Those in the know recognise the sarcasm involved and squirm inwardly for the person who is being targeted.

what a disgraceful way to behave.

Yer what?

Oh probably- but it is amusing and harmless because the person being spoken to thinks they are doing really well and they go away feeling quite good about themselves. Better than picking a public fight and berating them I think.

Until later when it hits them and they think "WTF?!"

My (deaf) grandma says "Waddya say? Speak plain, don't mumble".

I've had some splendidly crushing things said to me in a pleasant tone of voice. I had to hand it to my parents they really knew how to do this! Luckily I thought it was funny otherwise it could have been devastating!

trisher I was joking.

Your Grandma gillybob! Don't you say it yet?

Oh no. I remember now. You're a young'un.

I am far too young to feel this bloomin' old jings I know that much !

Never sure with you jbf I suspect that you may be another "wind up merchant" and I keep falling for it!!!!

This is something of a difficulty. I too have been taught "pardon" is not the thing to say and I find "what" abrupt and even rude. If I am asking a stranger for information I say "Forgive me, but could you..." and I feel more comfortable with that.

Uncle Stavely used to say, "I heard that, pardon?" A phrase I often use!
I say pardon, or I'm sorry, and also say again, which my Dad used to say. I wonder if that's what he said as a radio operator in the RAF, having read other comments here.
He used to correct me when I said "hey?" saying, "hay is what horses eat" which I said to my parents in law in those early days. So embarrassed by that now!

I grew up hearing "cum agen?" (come again) a lot in this context. I guess it must be the West Yorkshire version of "say again".

Like, I suspect, a lot of other people on here, I was taught by both my parents and my teachers that "pardon" was the thing to say. In fact, I've never forgotten one teacher telling a boy that she wanted him to do something, him answering "what?", and her instantly correcting him to "pardon" when all he wanted to know was what she wanted him to do!

Now, should I tell my DiL about this thread? She has made a huge effort over the last few weeks to get DGS (age 4) and DGD (age 2) to say "pardon" instead of "what" when they haven't heard what was said. Now that they are finally starting to use it, dare I tell her that it's not considered correct by a lot of people?
No, I won't bother, because I still think that pardon is perfectly polite.

BTW - excuse my ignorance, but what does non-U mean?

U and Non-U were jokey categories meaning Upper Class and Not Upper Class - I think part of the family jokes of the Mitford Sisters.

Lavatory - U, Toilet non-U
Sweat - U, Perspiration non-U
Living room - U, Lounge, non-U

and so on. John Betjeman cauight a lot of these non-U usages in his poem
'How to Get On in Society'

Phone for the fish knives, Norman
As cook is a little unnerved;
You kiddies have crumpled the serviettes
And I must have things daintily served.

Are the requisites all in the toilet?
The frills round the cutlets can wait
Till the girl has replenished the cruets
And switched on the logs in the grate.

It's ever so close in the lounge dear,
But the vestibule's comfy for tea
And Howard is riding on horseback
So do come and take some with me

Now here is a fork for your pastries
And do use the couch for your feet;
I know that I wanted to ask you-
Is trifle sufficient for sweet?

Milk and then just as it comes dear?
I'm afraid the preserve's full of stones;
Beg pardon, I'm soiling the doileys
With afternoon tea-cakes and scones.

The ultimate non-U mistake would be to take any of it seriously!

U and non-u was coined by Nancy Mitford as being upper or non- upper class. Hopefully someone else can add to this or correct me if I'm wrong

I love that bêtjeman poem Feetlebaum

Thanks for the explanation, feetlebaum. Some how or other, that one had passed me by!

Even though I've never hear / read that poem before, it brings back happy memories because my sons used to memorize John Betjeman poems for extra pocket when they were young. Even now, they can still recite many of them

I mean "somehow"!
Does anyone know why the GN elves won't give us an edit button so that we can correct the typos we only spot after pressing "post message"?

anything is better than 'eh' which is what some people say in the north east. I never do I usually say 'sorry' with raised eyebrows.

But doesn't the eyebrows thing imply that they've said something surprising or distasteful, ethel?